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Post by bountyhunter9 on Sept 1, 2010 13:26:34 GMT -5
Having said all that, here is another attempt at a Fordo that works well with both ARCs but boosts the CS ARC more. Unfortunately, it runs against the mantra of "simplify" ARC Trooper Captain FordoFaction: Republic Cost: 32 Hit Points: 60 Defense: 16 Attack: 10 Damage: 20 Unique, Order 66Accurate Shot (Can attack an enemy with cover even if it's not the nearest enemy) Big Guns (Allies within 6 squares named ARC Trooper gain Blaster Cannon) Blast Cannon (+10 Damage against targets within 6 squares) Twin Attack (Whenever this character attacks, she makes 1 extra attack against the same target) Commander Effect:Allied characters whose name contains ARC Trooper gain Accurate Shot and Twin Attack. If ever an ARC trooper had a soft spot, it was Fordo's for overwhelming firepower.Interesting take, and this might put us on the right track. I didn't consider a special ability like Big Guns, but I like the idea. Rather than Blast Cannon, though, maybe we could go with something else for Big Guns. If I may: Allies within 6 squares named ARC Trooper get +4 attack and +10 damage. It's a bigger boost (and they need it), so we could take the Accurate Shot part out of the CE if we wanted to balance his commanding abilities a little more. Or we could change the CE so it gives Blast Cannnon instead of Accurate Shot.
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Post by Dendrite on Sept 1, 2010 19:42:29 GMT -5
ARC Trooper Captain FordoFaction: Republic Cost: 32 Hit Points: 60 Defense: 16 Attack: 10 Damage: 20 Unique, Order 66Accurate Shot (Can attack an enemy with cover even if it's not the nearest enemy) Big Guns (Allies within 6 squares named ARC Trooper gain Blaster Cannon) Blast Cannon (+10 Damage against targets within 6 squares) Twin Attack (Whenever this character attacks, she makes 1 extra attack against the same target) Commander Effect:Allied characters whose name contains ARC Trooper gain Accurate Shot and Twin Attack. If ever an ARC trooper had a soft spot, it was Fordo's for overwhelming firepower. I actually rather like this...just remeber that in Big Guns, the ability is Blast Cannon, not Blaster Cannon.
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Post by gwek on Sept 1, 2010 21:09:48 GMT -5
Good catch on the typo, Den. Thanks! Interesting take, and this might put us on the right track. I didn't consider a special ability like Big Guns, but I like the idea. Rather than Blast Cannon, though, maybe we could go with something else for Big Guns. If I may: Allies within 6 squares named ARC Trooper get +4 attack and +10 damage. To me, though, that sounds more like a CE than a special ability. If we go for more than Blast Cannon, yes, but with just BC, I don't know if it would be enough. Then we're back to one of the problems, I think: --A compound CE --A CE that only helps one piece --A CE that helps the Sniper more than the CS ARC
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Post by bountyhunter9 on Sept 1, 2010 21:37:47 GMT -5
Interesting take, and this might put us on the right track. I didn't consider a special ability like Big Guns, but I like the idea. Rather than Blast Cannon, though, maybe we could go with something else for Big Guns. If I may: Allies within 6 squares named ARC Trooper get +4 attack and +10 damage. To me, though, that sounds more like a CE than a special ability. How is it any different than giving Blast Cannon? Then we're back to one of the problems, I think: --A compound CE --A CE that only helps one piece --A CE that helps the Sniper more than the CS ARC No, I meant that if we use +4/+10 for BG rather than BC, we could drop AS from the CE, or swap AS for BC in the CE (I hope everybody can keep up with the acronyms ). I think that would lead to a very effective generic ARC, but also a boosted Sniper that isn't partially "shafted" by the CE.
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Post by gwek on Sept 1, 2010 23:02:00 GMT -5
How is it any different than giving Blast Cannon? Although there are exceptions, the majority of special abilities that boost others give out a special ability, not a stat boost. I followed the acronyms, but now my head hurts.
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Post by bountyhunter9 on Sept 2, 2010 13:53:54 GMT -5
How is it any different than giving Blast Cannon? Although there are exceptions, the majority of special abilities that boost others give out a special ability, not a stat boost. While that is true, there are more than enough abilities that boost stats (Enraging Screech, Fire Control, etc.) that we could use a stat boost if we wanted to.
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Post by surfrider56 on Sept 2, 2010 13:58:05 GMT -5
We seem to be stuck on a CE; maybe we give him something that has a limited range ... useless with Mas or mice around but still a limitation, especially if Mas/mice are eliminated ..... that or we give ARC one thing that's Really dangerous ......
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Post by gwek on Sept 2, 2010 14:25:56 GMT -5
Although there are exceptions, the majority of special abilities that boost others give out a special ability, not a stat boost. While that is true, there are more than enough abilities that boost stats (Enraging Screech, Fire Control, etc.) that we could use a stat boost if we wanted to. True, but I don't think any of those offer 2 effects, do they? They boost 1 stat. It's also worth noting that Republic pieces have access to about a half dozen commander effects that provide straight bonuses to Attack under various circumstances. I believe this would stack, so I think it might become potentially unbalancing. If I wind up in the minority, I probably won't fight too hard against it, but I'm not a fan of a special ability that gives ARCs an Attack bonus, or a damage bonus at unlimited range. I think the Fordo that I threw out there does a good job of distinguishing the two different ARC types while still staying fairly streamlined.
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Post by bountyhunter9 on Sept 2, 2010 17:24:43 GMT -5
While that is true, there are more than enough abilities that boost stats (Enraging Screech, Fire Control, etc.) that we could use a stat boost if we wanted to. True, but I don't think any of those offer 2 effects, do they? They boost 1 stat. There are abilities that do offer boosts to two stats. Sacrification +10, for instance. It's also worth noting that Republic pieces have access to about a half dozen commander effects that provide straight bonuses to Attack under various circumstances. I believe this would stack, so I think it might become potentially unbalancing. Unbalancing? CS ARC Troopers with 4 more attack and 10 more damage won't be unbalancing, considering how unplayable they currently are. Sure, they could get some high attack scores, but unless they will have restrictions (such as limiting the ARC's movement, or only working against adjacent enemies), or it's going cost a lot of points to run. And (just to be sure) when you mentioned stacking, did you mean that the +4/+10 would stack with the CEs, or that the CEs would stack on top of the +4/+10? If I wind up in the minority, I probably won't fight too hard against it, but I'm not a fan of a special ability that gives ARCs an Attack bonus, or a damage bonus at unlimited range. Just curious: where did unlimited range come from? Are you suggesting and attack or damage bonus with unlimited range? :S I think the Fordo that I threw out there does a good job of distinguishing the two different ARC types while still staying fairly streamlined. I don't hate it, but there's just something about giving out Blast Cannon that (for lack of a better word) bothers me. It's difficult for me to fathom how Fordo gives some troopers Blast Cannons. That is (in addition to its more limited game impact) why I would rather see a simple stat boost. Lame reason, I know.
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Post by gwek on Sept 2, 2010 20:04:43 GMT -5
ARC Troopers can benefit from many commander effects. And, really, it feels a little like we're getting hung up on making a single piece playable.
I meant that the benefits would stack with various commander effects that offer a flat Attack (or even Damage) bonus.
A page or two back someone--I think it was you--suggested the idea that we could buff the CS ARCs in some way that would make them effective at close range (as opposed to the Accurate Shot of the Snipers, which is, by definition, of limited usefulness at close range).
That was largely my inspiration for the suggestion of Blast Cannon (which I thought dovetailed nicely with the flavor we have for the character).
Your alternate suggestion of +4/+10, I think, did not have a range, so the +10 damage is good all the way across the map (unlike Blast Cannon). That's what I meant by "unlimited range."
How does the CzerkSci do what she does? How does Yomin Carr give Poison and Spit Poison to Vong only within 6 squares? Who the heck knows?!? The game gets pretty abstract on some points.
Here, though, I'm basically picturing the opening moments of Chapter 21 of the first animated Clone Wars series.
Not lame, but personal preference. Although to me, it's really semantics.
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Post by surfrider56 on Sept 5, 2010 12:10:56 GMT -5
Ok .... I wasn't planning on unleashing a philosophical torrent when I said lets just give him One good ARC assisting CE ...
I'm barely awake from having to sit through a week of the most Boring staff meetings ever .... let's keep it simple guys, we don't need to break down the game in a meta of the union speech ...
One sentence ... what do we want to give him?
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Post by gwek on Sept 5, 2010 22:47:14 GMT -5
I present two options:
#1 in a sentence: Fordo is designed as a decent (but not faction-shaking shooter who can make ARC Troopers more effective.
#2 in a sentence: Fordo is a strong shooter who can help both ARC Trooper pieces, but brings unique strengths to the CS ARC Trooper, perhaps making it worth its cost.
(Personally, I like the first option, possibly with the addition of "and Accurate Shot" to the commander effect. He's nice and streamlined and, I think, gets the job done.)
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Post by Dendrite on Sept 5, 2010 23:22:34 GMT -5
Agreed. Looking at it again, I wouldn't mind the second one, but for this character, simpler is better.
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Post by surfrider56 on Sept 5, 2010 23:40:02 GMT -5
Agreed. Looking at it again, I wouldn't mind the second one, but for this character, simpler is better. Again, for clarity, simpler is you liking #1 but willing to go with #2 because its simpler?
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Post by Dendrite on Sept 6, 2010 8:54:15 GMT -5
Agreed. Looking at it again, I wouldn't mind the second one, but for this character, simpler is better. Again, for clarity, simpler is you liking #1 but willing to go with #2 because its simpler? Sorta...number 1 is simpler and I like it better, but I wouldn't argue if we went with number 2
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