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Post by surfrider56 on Aug 11, 2010 23:05:04 GMT -5
I'd rather lose Evade in the CE than also give it. Clones are strong enough .... and we don't need another uber Rex.
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Post by gwek on Aug 12, 2010 9:49:52 GMT -5
I agree that we should cut Evade. That leaves us with: ARC Trooper Captain FordoFaction: Republic Cost: Hit Points: 70 Defense: 16 Attack: 10 Damage: 20 Unique, Order 66Accurate Shot (Can attack an enemy with cover even if it's not the nearest enemy) Twin Attack (Whenever this character attacks, she makes 1 extra attack against the same target) Commander Effect:Allied characters whose name contains ARC Trooper gain Twin Attack. If ever an ARC trooper had a soft spot, it was Fordo's for overwhelming firepower.Is that enough? Unfortunately, no matter what we do with him, he doesn't really make regular ARC Troopers worth playing (Snipers are better in virtually every way, except for +10 HP). Since he's a non-Jedi piece from a major factor, I can't even pretend that I really care enough to offer ideas.
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Post by bountyhunter9 on Aug 13, 2010 21:59:25 GMT -5
Hmm. I agree that dropping Evade from the CE is probably the best course of action.
I have an idea. I think we should reword the CE so that it affects ONLY characters named ARC Trooper, so the snipers aren't boosted by it. The snipers are decent pieces, and I can't think of a CE that would make the CS ARC playable while still benefitting the near-superior sniper.
If we change who the CE affects, there are a lot of options to make the ARCs (more) effective. We could grant Accurate Shot and Twin Attack, stat boosts (somewhat redundant in this faction, unless we would like a damage boost), or heavier Grenades, even Grenades 40 (but, again, that would be somewhat redundant).
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Post by surfrider56 on Aug 14, 2010 0:41:24 GMT -5
How about we give him Oddball's CE, gain Grenades 20 and Penetration 20? Oddball can only give it to Pilots ... the extra firepower/damage output would jibe with Fordo.
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Post by gwek on Aug 14, 2010 14:55:46 GMT -5
How about:
Allied characters whose name contains ARC Trooper gain Twin Attack and may use an ability that replaces attacks one extra time per turn.
With this, both ARC pieces gain Twin, but the second part (intended to mirror Tarpals' CE but also stack with it) allows the ARC Trooper to use his grenades twice---or three times with Tarpals and Fordo!
Or maybe:
Allied characters whose name contains ARC Trooper gain Twin Attack. Allies with Grenades 10 gain [X].
I'm not sure what [X] would represent--Scattergun? EMP Grenades? Something to increase damage output, I imagine... There are 8 Fringe/Republic pieces with Grenades 10, so it would give Fordo a bit more flexibility.
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Post by Dendrite on Aug 14, 2010 23:57:27 GMT -5
How about: Allied characters whose name contains ARC Trooper gain Twin Attack and may use an ability that replaces attacks one extra time per turn.With this, both ARC pieces gain Twin, but the second part (intended to mirror Tarpals' CE but also stack with it) allows the ARC Trooper to use his grenades twice---or three times with Tarpals and Fordo! Or maybe: Allied characters whose name contains ARC Trooper gain Twin Attack. Allies with Grenades 10 gain [X].I'm not sure what [X] would represent--Scattergun? EMP Grenades? Something to increase damage output, I imagine... There are 8 Fringe/Republic pieces with Grenades 10, so it would give Fordo a bit more flexibility. I like the first one
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Post by surfrider56 on Aug 15, 2010 11:16:15 GMT -5
I can see where the first one ...
"Allied characters whose name contains ARC Trooper gain Twin Attack and may use an ability that replaces attacks one extra time per turn."
... would be nice, but is there a precident for something as "nebulous" for want of a better term, as "use an ability that replaces attacks?"
What else would affect that? I'm only playing devils advocate as I run through these before I hit the road ....
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Post by gwek on Aug 15, 2010 22:45:57 GMT -5
The precedent comes from Captain Tarpals, who has the following commander effect:
Each follower can use 2 abilities that replace attacks instead of 1 on its turn.
The possible CE I'm suggesting would have the following impact (I think):
1) ARC Troopers and ARC Trooper Snipers would both gain Twin Attack with Captain Fordo.
2) ARC Troopers would be able to use Grenades twice in an activation with either Fordo or Tarpals. There are many pieces who can use Grenades and other abilities twice when in the same squad as Tarpals.
3) In a squad with Fordo and Tarpals, ARC Troopers could use Grenades 10 up to three times. They would be unique in this ability.
4) The Rodian Trader presents a bit of a wrinkle, in that he can provide either ARC piece with Heal 10 (which they could use 2-3 times or give the ARC Sniper Grenades...
*****
Having said all that, perhaps the easier thing is to say "Screw the ARC Troopers," go with the nice and "light" version in Reply #19, pick an appropriate cost (low 20s?), and call it a day...
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Post by Dendrite on Aug 16, 2010 10:04:51 GMT -5
Having said all that, perhaps the easier thing is to say "Screw the ARC Troopers," go with the nice and "light" version in Reply # 19, pick an appropriate cost (low 20s?), and call it a day... ...you mean '91' right?
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Post by gwek on Aug 16, 2010 11:04:09 GMT -5
D'oh! Typo!
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Post by bountyhunter9 on Aug 16, 2010 17:30:35 GMT -5
That's an interesting CE (with the Tarpals-type effect), and it would definitely create a fairly effective squad with Fordo, Tarpals, ARC Troopers, and the RCTS. Triple Grenades 30 would make the ARCs scary.
But it might be better to avoid the "wrinkle" that Gwek pointed out with the Rodian Trader, and use a simpler CE.
Rather than use the "light" CE, I'd rather see something that makes the CS ARCs an option over the Snipers. I'm not sure what that would be, but maybe something that gives ARCs a damage boost against close enemies, or a boost against enemies who do not have cover, in addition to Twin Attack.
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Post by gwek on Aug 16, 2010 21:31:26 GMT -5
How about:
ARC Trooper Captain Fordo Faction: Republic Cost: mid-20s??? Hit Points: 60 Defense: 16 Attack: 10 Damage: 20
Unique, Order 66 Accurate Shot (Can attack an enemy with cover even if it's not the nearest enemy) Blast Cannon (+10 Damage against targets within 6 squares) Twin Attack (Whenever this character attacks, she makes 1 extra attack against the same target)
Commander Effect: Allies whose name contains ARC Trooper gain Twin Attack. Allies named ARC Trooper gain Blast Cannon.
If ever an ARC trooper had a soft spot, it was Fordo's for overwhelming firepower.
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Post by Dendrite on Aug 17, 2010 9:56:38 GMT -5
Heh...an acuurate blast cannon. Maybe...
I did think of one thing we can add to make the ARCs at least on par with or little better than the Snipers...
Allies whose name contains ARC Trooper who move this turn gain +10 damage.
This takes away the Sniper's Deadeye advantage. Maybe?
Then there's always the second half of the Republic Commando Training Sergeant's CE
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Post by gwek on Aug 23, 2010 11:39:49 GMT -5
A Grenades upgrade could work, but seems repetitive with the RCTS if it's just damage.
Also, while the idea of "taking away" the Sniper's Deadeye DOES equalize things a bit, it ultimately still nets out in favor of the Sniper: the Sniper gets +10 whether moving or standing still, but the Troopre only gets it when moving.
Does anyone have thoughts on the Blast Cannon idea? Theoretically, the AT Snipers are better past 6 squares, then, and the ATs better at close-fighting... I think.
Anyone?
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Post by bountyhunter9 on Aug 25, 2010 17:25:54 GMT -5
I'm not sure what to suggest, outside of an ARC Trooper only boost (a boost that wouldn't affect the snipers, who are already decent pieces). Other than that, there likely won't be a simple way to make the CS ARCs playable.
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