Post by gwek on Dec 28, 2009 1:30:57 GMT -5
I'm not suggesting we use Rex and/or Dash as a model, but keep them in mind when costing Fordo. As a shooter, Fordo is far less effective than Rex.
As he should be, since Rex is aggressively priced. I would not necessarily expect a shooter of comparable capability to Dash Rendar to be comparably priced, since Dash is aggressively priced. If everyone is priced using those pieces as a point of comparison, they lose their aggressive pricing.
The Republic needs another aggressively priced shooter like it needs a hole in the head.
Now, a squad with Rex and 501st Clone Troopers is far better than Fordo and ARC Snipers, as I've already mentioned. Rex is a superior shooter and a superior commander. So, IMO, there is NO reason to play Fordo when you can play Rex.
I think you're really de-valuing the combination of Twin Attack and Accurate Shot, both on Fordo himself and on the ARC Snipers. Under Fordo's command, ARC Snipers become one of the best cheap Accurate Shot pieces in the game. I believe they're the only piece that costs less than 20 that is capable of up to 60 damage using Accurate Shot. And that's not factoring in Evade, which will effectively (on average) double their life expectancy.
I agree that Rex IS a superior shooter (as well he should be, because he's agressively priced) and his commander effect is BROADER, but I don't think that GMA is a clear "winner" over Twin + Evade by any means, even if the latter is only limited to two pieces. The commander effect is very well-suited to the ARC Snipers, and makes them quite deadly in the right squad build.
I find it interesting that you state that comparing to Dash is weak, when there is even LESS of a comparison to Han Solo, Scoundrel. As I've said, the similarities are the base stats, Twin Attack, and Accurate Shot, and they end there.
Han and Fordo also share the same base damage (20), and neither has Double Attack (which Dash does).
Two big factors in cost design are base damage and how many attacks a character has (Twin vs not, Double vs single). Dash is not a good comparator in any of those categories.
Not only that, but Han is in a completely different faction. Dash may be Fringe, but that's a lot more similar to Republic than Rebel is.
How so? While I agree that the Rebels and the Republic are very different factions, the game designers have admitted that Fringe pieces use a different pricing structure than non-Fringe pieces (for game balance, since they can be used with any faction).
Further, we know that Dash has been priced very aggressively as a fan favorite (per Rob, I believe Dash and maybe even Rex, along with Jarael, were singled out as "exception to the rule" pieces).
After searching bloomilk, I think the best character to compare Fordo with is Commander Cody (from GaW). Fordo has +20 HP, -1 attack, and Twin Attack, while Cody gains Deadly Attack, Flurry Attack, and a Rapport for Clone Troopers. Fordo's CE offers more powerful abilities, but Cody's offers pretty good abilites to a much broader range of pieces. Both are commanders with Order 66. Cody costs 23 points, a pretty good cost for him, though maybe one or two points too high.
I agree that Cody is a good piece for comparison. His basic abilities overall are slightly worse than Fordo's, and I don't see Deadly/Flurry as a real equivalent to Twin Attack (especially when paired with Evade in the commander effect). Cody's Rapport is nice, I'll grant that, and (as with Rex) his commander effect is BROADER. It brings up the question which is worth more: a commander effect that really helps a single piece, or one that sorta helps a broader variety? I don't know if there is a clear answer (because it all depends on squad build), but my personal inclination is to lean more toward the former.
It's also worth nothing that Fordo, because of his ARC Trooper ability, has slightly better personal synergy than either Cody or Rex: he counts as a Trooper (and is therefore able to use any commander effects for Trooper allies), and as an ARC can contribute to (although not necessarily benefit from) Squad-type commander effects.
But yes, please, someone else weigh in. It seems that neither of us will change our minds, so we'll be at a standstill until someone does weigh in...
Agreed.
I think a lot of the root of the difference may lay in how much weight is given to the combo of Accurate Shot/Twin Attack (as well as the ability to give it out). Personally, I think it's a very powerful combination and should be priced accordingly.