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Jerec
Jul 4, 2010 13:20:09 GMT -5
Post by surfrider56 on Jul 4, 2010 13:20:09 GMT -5
Well ... if I wanted to upset the apple cart, so to speak ... it still bugs me a little that he doesn't at least have LtSaber Defense. Duelist was sorta washed out in replies #50-60 ... left hanging and disappeared.
I can see why no Duelist from earlier discussions but why not not Defense?
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Jerec
Jul 4, 2010 20:55:40 GMT -5
Post by gwek on Jul 4, 2010 20:55:40 GMT -5
Was Jerec really that handy with a lightsaber? Force Defense is pretty rare (even when you consider the dozen or so characters with Block + Deflect). I've read the Katarn books, but it's been a while.
In a design sense, I think keeping LS Defense off his card keeps him uncluttered and streamlined. He already has two really great Force powers (Force Destruction and Force Absorb [he's actually the only darksider to have either Force Absorb or Force Defense]) to make him stand out. To put more on him might risk overkill.
I feel kinda like if we give him LS Defense, then Force Absorb should go away to avoid putting him on par with some of the better Vaders in terms of versatility.
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Jerec
Jul 4, 2010 22:02:53 GMT -5
Post by Dendrite on Jul 4, 2010 22:02:53 GMT -5
Whatever happens, Force Absorb should definitely stay. It's one of Jerec's key abilities.
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Jerec
Jul 12, 2010 21:38:13 GMT -5
Post by Jm419 on Jul 12, 2010 21:38:13 GMT -5
That CE's pretty potent - are we sure we don't want to impose a range limit or anything?
Force Destruction seems fine to me, Force 5 is a huge FP cost in today's game - it's the aspect of sight that bothers me. Though I'm unfamiliar with the character, would it be too far gone to say "60 damage to characters within x squares..." instead of making it a targetable ability? That way, Jerec would have to be in the thick of it before he could unleash such a potentially devastating power. Realistically, he could sit back behind a corner, then once he had the requisite force, move out and destroy much of the enemy command structure, or wreak havoc amongst mid level enemy characters, decimating much of the squad.
As is, I'd cost at about 64, 65, because of that FD. If we change it to "characters within x squares," then as much as ten points could be chopped from the cost.
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Jerec
Jul 12, 2010 22:36:52 GMT -5
Post by bountyhunter9 on Jul 12, 2010 22:36:52 GMT -5
I wouldn't say that the CE is potent, not in a faction with a couple of very powerful and very effective Force batteries.
Jm, are you suggesting something similar to Unleash the Force? Something like that could be devastating in the Empire, who have both the aforementioned Force batteries and swapping. A burst effect like that also wouldn't represent Force Destruction very well. It does deal out a ton of damage, but because it replaces turn and uses up such a large amount of FP, I think it's balanced.
What do others think?
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Jerec
Jul 12, 2010 23:42:47 GMT -5
Post by surfrider56 on Jul 12, 2010 23:42:47 GMT -5
I wouldn't say that the CE is potent, not in a faction with a couple of very powerful and very effective Force batteries. Jm, are you suggesting something similar to Unleash the Force? Something like that could be devastating in the Empire, who have both the aforementioned Force batteries and swapping. A burst effect like that also wouldn't represent Force Destruction very well. It does deal out a ton of damage, but because it replaces turn and uses up such a large amount of FP, I think it's balanced. What do others think? It Does replace Turn, and even with a Force battery, seriously, he Might get two shots of FD off? To Jm; why do you think a +1 FP to non-uniques is That dangerous? Are we talking about the same CE?
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Jerec
Jul 13, 2010 11:58:51 GMT -5
Post by gwek on Jul 13, 2010 11:58:51 GMT -5
Here's what I had to say last page. Still pretty much feel that way:
My gut instinct is that FD balances out. It's actually not too much more powerful than the upper end Force attacks (which do slightly less damage, but have a secondary effect).
If we think it's too powerful, perhaps drop the secondary damage to 20? On the other hand, my feeling is that given the difficulty of Jerec actually pulling it off, anyone who clusters there people together when Jerec's got 5 FP deserves what they get!
Also, remember that it does damage to all adjacent CHARACTERS, so an effective way to make Jerec think twice is to base him.
When pricing him, we should probably go at the high end rather than the low, because the Imps are so powerful and he CAN be a deadly pairing with Thrawn.
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Jerec
Jul 13, 2010 13:13:10 GMT -5
Post by Dendrite on Jul 13, 2010 13:13:10 GMT -5
Here's what I had to say last page. Still pretty much feel that way: My gut instinct is that FD balances out. It's actually not too much more powerful than the upper end Force attacks (which do slightly less damage, but have a secondary effect).
If we think it's too powerful, perhaps drop the secondary damage to 20? On the other hand, my feeling is that given the difficulty of Jerec actually pulling it off, anyone who clusters there people together when Jerec's got 5 FP deserves what they get!
Also, remember that it does damage to all adjacent CHARACTERS, so an effective way to make Jerec think twice is to base him. When pricing him, we should probably go at the high end rather than the low, because the Imps are so powerful and he CAN be a deadly pairing with Thrawn. Agreement here
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Jerec
Jul 14, 2010 15:30:35 GMT -5
Post by gwek on Jul 14, 2010 15:30:35 GMT -5
He's scheduled for approval this Friday, so in the interest of keeping this alive, this is pretty much where we were before: JerecCost: Faction: Imperial Hit Points: 120 Defense: 20 Attack: 13 Damage: 20 Unique, Melee Attack, Double AttackDoctrine of Fear (Enemy characters within 6 squares get -4 Attack) It's A Trap (Enemies with Stealth within 6 squares lose Stealth) Force 2, Force Renewal 1Force Absorb (Force 2: Cancel a Force power used by an adjacent character) Force Destruction (Force 5, replaces turn: sight; 60 damage to target and 30 damage to each character adjacent to that target) Sith Lightning 30 (Force 2, replaces attacks: range 6; 30 damage) Commander Effect:Each non-Unique ally with a Force rating starts with +1 Force. Yes? No? Cost? Low 60s, as JM suggests?
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Jerec
Jul 14, 2010 16:19:46 GMT -5
Post by surfrider56 on Jul 14, 2010 16:19:46 GMT -5
As is .... 62-64?
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Jerec
Jul 14, 2010 21:50:14 GMT -5
Post by bountyhunter9 on Jul 14, 2010 21:50:14 GMT -5
For the cost, I'm thinking more 58, but I'd be fine with anything from 56-60.
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Jerec
Jul 15, 2010 8:42:46 GMT -5
Post by gwek on Jul 15, 2010 8:42:46 GMT -5
I'd be okay with anything in the ranges you guys are talking about. We've basically got one vote for high 50s/60, one vote for low 60s.
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Jerec
Jul 15, 2010 8:52:06 GMT -5
Post by Dendrite on Jul 15, 2010 8:52:06 GMT -5
I'm also leaning to high 50s - low 60s
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Jerec
Jul 15, 2010 9:30:35 GMT -5
Post by gwek on Jul 15, 2010 9:30:35 GMT -5
61?
Anyone? Anyone?
61?
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Jerec
Jul 15, 2010 12:29:02 GMT -5
Post by surfrider56 on Jul 15, 2010 12:29:02 GMT -5
BH says 56-60, I say 62-64 ... split the difference 60 or 61?
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