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Jerec
Jun 30, 2010 21:12:38 GMT -5
Post by gwek on Jun 30, 2010 21:12:38 GMT -5
So, something like this? JerecCost: Faction: Imperial Hit Points: 120 Defense: 20 Attack: 14 Damage: 20 Unique, Melee Attack, Double AttackDoctrine of Fear (Enemy characters within 6 squares get -4 Attack) Force 2, Force Renewal 1Force Absorb (Force 2: Cancel a Force power used by an adjacent character) Force Destruction (Force 5, replaces turn: sight; 60 damage to target and 30 damage to each character adjacent to that target) Sith Lightning 30 (Force 2, replaces attacks: range 6; 30 damage) Commander Effect:Each Unique ally with a Force rating starts with +1 Force. **** I have a minor concern that he may be a little too close, at heard, to VAU (which I'm okay with, as long as he costs more, because he's more versatile). In revisiting the commander effect, I'm not loving it. Sure, Jerec led a gaggle of dark Jedi, but should he really be giving FPs to Vader and Sidious? Thematically, I think it would work better if he gave it to NON-Unique allies.
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Jerec
Jul 1, 2010 0:03:46 GMT -5
Post by Dendrite on Jul 1, 2010 0:03:46 GMT -5
While I would think Its A Trap would be as vital to a Miraluka as Regeneration is on a Trandoshan, I can see the need for space and simplicity. After all, if the Imps really need some help against Stealth, Nyna and Veers are right there, so the choice makes sense from a gameplay standpoint as well.
As for the CE, I could see it being for non-uniques (I'm sure that if WOTC had made a mini of one of his dark jedi, it would have been a generic anyway)
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Jerec
Jul 1, 2010 18:50:34 GMT -5
Post by surfrider56 on Jul 1, 2010 18:50:34 GMT -5
I suspect we should make the CE a non-unique version; I have an aversion to cans of worms and I think this could potentially be one.
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Jerec
Jul 1, 2010 20:49:46 GMT -5
Post by bountyhunter9 on Jul 1, 2010 20:49:46 GMT -5
I'd be fine with changing the CE to affect non-Uniques. Also, I think we should revisit Force Destruction, just to ascertain its balance.
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Jerec
Jul 1, 2010 22:48:18 GMT -5
Post by gwek on Jul 1, 2010 22:48:18 GMT -5
Re-visit away, BH!
*****
By the way, in the main thread, GF was able to get everything to fit (and it still looks pretty).
Since space is not a consideration, I'm okay with keeping It's a Trap!, but still think Sith Hatred should go.
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Jerec
Jul 2, 2010 10:50:48 GMT -5
Post by surfrider56 on Jul 2, 2010 10:50:48 GMT -5
Re-visit away, BH! ***** By the way, in the main thread, GF was able to get everything to fit (and it still looks pretty). Since space is not a consideration, I'm okay with keeping It's a Trap!, but still think Sith Hatred should go. The new card looks nice. As for losing Hatred, are we now losing it for the sake of "cleaning up" Jerec and making him less cluttered with abilities? I ask simply for clarification, because I'm always for simplifying and I'd be for that move ... or are we looking to add something like a lightsaber ability, which the newest version doesn't have.
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Jerec
Jul 2, 2010 11:36:19 GMT -5
Post by gwek on Jul 2, 2010 11:36:19 GMT -5
I think the intent is to un-clutter him (as well as focus his Force powers... some people didn't love Sith Hatred on him).
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Jerec
Jul 2, 2010 16:52:41 GMT -5
Post by surfrider56 on Jul 2, 2010 16:52:41 GMT -5
So, if we're aiming for uncluttered, is GF's Jerec2 the piece we go with? Time to vote?
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Jerec
Jul 2, 2010 20:04:06 GMT -5
Post by bountyhunter9 on Jul 2, 2010 20:04:06 GMT -5
Are we dropping Sith Hatred?
On Force Destruction, I think the high FP cost combined with the replaces turn aspect of the ability balances out its insane direct damage, but that's just how it looks to me (and, I would assume, the rest of us) on paper. I haven't actually playested such a powerful direct-damage Force power, so I can't say for sure. Nonetheless, it gives Jerec a unique ability that I'm happy with.
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Jerec
Jul 3, 2010 4:37:06 GMT -5
Post by gwek on Jul 3, 2010 4:37:06 GMT -5
So, if we're aiming for uncluttered, is GF's Jerec2 the piece we go with? Time to vote? If nothing else, we need to fix the CE. I think we should discuss in this thread a little more. There may also be enough changes that we need to discuss price.
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Jerec
Jul 3, 2010 4:45:51 GMT -5
Post by gwek on Jul 3, 2010 4:45:51 GMT -5
Are we dropping Sith Hatred? That's up for debate. Are you pro or con? I would suggest removing it because doing so would "clean up" the card a bit. My gut instinct is that FD balances out. It's actually not too much more powerful than the upper end Force attacks (which do slightly less damage, but have a secondary effect). If we think it's too powerful, perhaps drop the secondary damage to 20? On the other hand, my feeling is that given the difficulty of Jerec actually pulling it off, anyone who clusters there people together when Jerec's got 5 FP deserves what they get! Also, remember that it does damage to all adjacent CHARACTERS, so an effective way to make Jerec think twice is to base him. ***** In terms of the stats overall, since GF has demonstrated that we can fit everything we had, my personal preference would be: 1) Keep It's a Trap! (not super-useful since the faction already has many options for it, but thematically in keeping). 2) Drop Sith Hatred. This unclutters the card a bit and also puts Jerec in the position of relying on melee until he can accumulate enough FPs. (Consequently, I also wouldn't mind lowering his attack by 1 or 2). 3) Change the CE to non-Unique. 4) Take another look at the cost. Even though he might be losing some stuff, I think the non-Unique CE is more useful than the current version.
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Jerec
Jul 3, 2010 10:07:12 GMT -5
Post by Dendrite on Jul 3, 2010 10:07:12 GMT -5
1) Keep It's a Trap! (not super-useful since the faction already has many options for it, but thematically in keeping). 2) Drop Sith Hatred. This unclutters the card a bit and also puts Jerec in the position of relying on melee until he can accumulate enough FPs. (Consequently, I also wouldn't mind lowering his attack by 1 or 2). 3) Change the CE to non-Unique. 4) Take another look at the cost. Even though he might be losing some stuff, I think the non-Unique CE is more useful than the current version. I agree with these
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Jerec
Jul 3, 2010 12:18:06 GMT -5
Post by bountyhunter9 on Jul 3, 2010 12:18:06 GMT -5
1) Keep It's a Trap! (not super-useful since the faction already has many options for it, but thematically in keeping). 2) Drop Sith Hatred. This unclutters the card a bit and also puts Jerec in the position of relying on melee until he can accumulate enough FPs. (Consequently, I also wouldn't mind lowering his attack by 1 or 2). 3) Change the CE to non-Unique. 4) Take another look at the cost. Even though he might be losing some stuff, I think the non-Unique CE is more useful than the current version. I agree with these So do I.
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Jerec
Jul 3, 2010 20:45:33 GMT -5
Post by surfrider56 on Jul 3, 2010 20:45:33 GMT -5
... and who am I to argue; works for me ... if we make Attk 13, lose Hatred, keep Trap and use non-unique in the CE .... I wasn't around for the original discussion ... stay close to 50-52.
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Jerec
Jul 3, 2010 22:14:59 GMT -5
Post by gwek on Jul 3, 2010 22:14:59 GMT -5
Surf, if you've got a different point of view on any of this, go for it. I will freely admit that I have very little invested in Jerec, so I'm looking at him more from a "numbers" sense, than from a theme/accuracy angle. If we don't change anything beyond recent suggestions, though, I think this is pretty much what we're looking at: JerecCost: Faction: Imperial Hit Points: 120 Defense: 20 Attack: 13 Damage: 20 Unique, Melee Attack, Double AttackDoctrine of Fear (Enemy characters within 6 squares get -4 Attack) It's A Trap (Enemies with Stealth within 6 squares lose Stealth) Force 2, Force Renewal 1Force Absorb (Force 2: Cancel a Force power used by an adjacent character) Force Destruction (Force 5, replaces turn: sight; 60 damage to target and 30 damage to each character adjacent to that target) Sith Lightning 30 (Force 2, replaces attacks: range 6; 30 damage) Commander Effect:Each non-Unique ally with a Force rating starts with +1 Force.
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