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Post by Dendrite on Feb 19, 2010 22:24:46 GMT -5
I would up the attack to at least 7 and the HP to at least 50 or 60.
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Post by gwek on Feb 23, 2010 12:51:47 GMT -5
Here's a revised version! ;D Admiral Daala Cost: 24 Faction: Imperial Hit Points: 30 Defense: 14 Attack: 5 Damage: 10 Special Abilities Unique Blaster Upgrade (Allies within 6 squares with nonmelee attacks that deal exactly 10 Damage gain Twin Attack) Immediate Imperial Reserves 20 (If you roll exactly 5, 10, 15, or 20 for initiative, you can add up to 20 points of non-Unique Imperial characters adjacent to this character, immediately before your first activation of the round) Rapport (characters who come into the skirmish as Reserves cost 1 less) Commander Effect: Non-unique Imperial followers within 6 squares can make 1 immediate attack at +10 damage when they are defeated On one hand, I really like the piece. On the other, I think she presents a killer combo for a very low price. You actually don't even need to have any characters who can really benefit from her commander effect to begin with for her to be effective. Pair her with Probot, Calixte, Piett, or Lobot CLO and you've got a 40% chance of bringing in 20 points of pieces. Within a few rounds, the combo will likely have paid for itself. Although the 6 square thing needs to be considered (and is a theoretical balance), she can field tons of cheap fodder pieces will automatically gain Twin Attack, can easily gain at least one damage booster, and can now make two attacks (of at least 20 each) when defeated). You don't really need to even make attacks: just litter the fields with countless fodder pieces and home that math is on your side! Although interesting, I think it's a potentially troubling combo (in that it seems partially broken, and also may inspire unskilled gameplay). Perhaps more importantly, I'm not sure that if "feels like" Daala. To be clear, although I've said a lot of negative here, I'm also playing devil's advocate. I don't hate the piece, but am definitely interested to hear what other people think of some of the potential failings that I see.
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Post by bountyhunter9 on Feb 23, 2010 16:00:25 GMT -5
I feel that Gwek may be right. I think we should focus on one thing with Daala: either Immediate Reserves or the combination of Blaster Upgrade and the vindictive CE.
What do others think?
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Post by surfrider56 on Feb 23, 2010 20:58:27 GMT -5
I think ultimetely she was a "nicer version" of Tarkin; so Why Blaster Upgrade? I can see the Reserves, maybe rapport ... maybe a CE that gives them something more NJO era like, perhaps Mobile Attack?
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Post by fardreamer on Feb 24, 2010 0:05:55 GMT -5
I can see the powerful combos in play with her. And I can rspect Gwek's assessment that she could be broken. Always hard to pull together several different ideas with 1 mini. Why Blaster Rifle Upgrade? It was an attempt to represent how Daala had access to advanced tech in the maw. I'm open to ideas at this point. I think the CE really fits the character, so I don't think we should change that. Immediate reserves probably needs to be dropped. To be honest, I never considored to Lobot/Probot build. Man, this is tricky sometimes ;D
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Post by Roque Saber on Feb 24, 2010 1:23:02 GMT -5
Indeed, Reserves seems too powerful with GWEk obersvations. Might we consider Immediate Reserves 10? We've seen 20 and 30, so 10 probably wouldn't be much of a stretch. It also limits what she can bring in. If we changed Blaster to Blaster Rifle Upgrade, it would also limit to pieces that her Reserves would synenergize with.
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Post by gwek on Feb 24, 2010 12:21:53 GMT -5
I can see the powerful combos in play with her. And I can rspect Gwek's assessment that she could be broken. Always hard to pull together several different ideas with 1 mini. Why Blaster Rifle Upgrade? It was an attempt to represent how Daala had access to advanced tech in the maw. I'm open to ideas at this point. I think the CE really fits the character, so I don't think we should change that. Immediate reserves probably needs to be dropped. To be honest, I never considored to Lobot/Probot build. Man, this is tricky sometimes ;D And that's why the best customs are those where multiple people offer feedback, even if they're working from the ideas of a single person. To be honest, I would drop the weapons upgrade angle entirely. Didn't the Maw specialize more in "super-weapons" rather than superior firearms? I might go with something like this: Admiral DaalaCost: Faction: Imperial Hit Points: 30Defense: 14Attack: 5Damage: 10 UniqueImperial Military Reserves 30 (If you roll exactly 6 for initiative, you can add up to 30 points of non-Unique Imperial followers without a Force rating to your squad immediately before your first activation of the round) Commander Effect:Non-unique Imperial followers without a Force rating within 6 squares can make 1 immediate attack at +10 damage when they are defeated. COMMENTSAs has been noted, I could see the stats going a little higher, but since they're a relatively minor part of the character (or at least the discussion), I left them as-is for now. I dropped Rapport and Blaster Upgrade entirely, and replaced Immediate Reserves with Military Reserves (albeit at a higher number). She can still pull in lots of people (which works very well with the commander effect), but is a bit more limited in her choice of who she can select. With respect to the commander effect, I changed the requirements a bit to mirror Military Reserves. I highlighted the damage in red because I don't know that the Imperials need it. I understand that this CE mirrors Mon Mothma, but the Empire has a number of good damage boosters, so this might be a bit of a problem. As with Mon Mothma, the 6 square limit isn't too much of a limitation, thanks to Mouse Droids and Mas Amedda. I would almost like to add something like "Allies within 6 squares game Karmic Luck (If your initiative check is an odd number, +4 to all this character's rolls for the round; if it is an even number, -4 to all his rolls instead)," which would both reflect Daala's mercurial (and often losing) nature, and might also sort of discourage (or at least balance) the use of Mas and Mouse Droids. I could even see giving her Recon under such circumstances, which creates an interesting conundrum, where if you roll a 6, you have the interesting conundrum of getting Reserves vs taking a -4 penalty for your followers.
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Post by Roque Saber on Feb 26, 2010 13:59:13 GMT -5
Not sure about Karmic Luck. She doesn't seem like someone who would rely on luck to win. I still like the idea of Immediate Reserves 10, but maybe that's just me.
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Post by gwek on Feb 26, 2010 15:30:07 GMT -5
With Karmic Luck, don't get hung up on the name.
Look at the function of the ability: if it's a commander effect, depending on initiative, your forces either become 20% more effective or 20% less effective. I think that's (potentially) a way to reflect her mercurial nature. Historically, she is, by turns, a brilliant tactician and an utter moron. The total swing of 8 points could theoretically demonstrate that.
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Post by Roque Saber on Feb 26, 2010 17:22:35 GMT -5
When was she an utter moron? It's interesting, but I don't totally see how it fits her.
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Post by gwek on Feb 26, 2010 18:13:47 GMT -5
Much of her career is marked by failure after failure (often because she screws up and/or gives in to her emotions/fury).
Regardless, it's just a variant idea, so what are thoughts on the stats as a whole?
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Post by Roque Saber on Feb 26, 2010 22:44:35 GMT -5
Base stats look fine, a typical weak commander. The next issue is whether she has normal or Immediate Reserves. My opinion is that she should have Immediate Reserves since the Empire already has normal reserves through Ozzel. If we keep it at IR10, she can't bring in much, but she'll bring them in quite often. CE looks fine, though changing it to all followers might make it a bit more useful.
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Post by gwek on Feb 26, 2010 23:56:21 GMT -5
Personally, I'm not a fan of Immediate Reserves. I mean, yeah, I like it on Kazdan, but I'm not a fan of using it here. I also think that 10 is too small a value.
You'll note that my Daala has Military Reserves 30, which is pretty different from Ozzel's Reserves 20. She can bring in more pieces, but he has more freedom to chose. Paired with their differing commander effects, I don't think there would be much overlap.
It's also worth noting that of the factions that have access to Reserves, I believe all others have multiple Reserves pieces. As long as the characters are different enough otherwise, I see no problem with 2 Imp commanders with non-Immediate Reserves.
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Post by Roque Saber on Feb 27, 2010 2:01:02 GMT -5
Idk, I like IR, it just seems like what Reinforcement should have been. Constantly bringing some more grunts to the field. Let's get some more opinions on the subject.
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Post by gwek on Feb 27, 2010 7:06:20 GMT -5
Yeah, I agree that we need more folk to weigh in on Immediate Reserves... and on Karmic Luck! I see what you're saying about Immediate Reserves, but remember that a 25% chance of bringing in reserves is much more significant than a 5% chance. Remember also that the 2 pieces that currently have IR have it with DROIDS, and that's a very intentional choice. In the case of Kazdan Paradus, yes, you can pull in droids from any faction, but they will have little synergy with the rest of the squad (due to lack of commander effects) and Kazdan's cost definitely accounts for what he can do. In a "story sense", IR seems to represent his ability to just pull droids out of anywhere, as happens in the game. Droids do pretty much literally spring up out of the ground! Wat Tambor is a different story. Like Whorm Loathsom, he appears to be an effort to help the Seps rise to the level of some of the other factions. In a "story sense," I imagine this represents the endless hordes of droids, and how they just seem to be EVERYWHERE (especially during the CLONE WARS cartoon). While I agee that IR is a pretty cool ability, I think that most of what I've outlined above makes it as sub-optimal choice for the Imperials. First, Imperial IR would work differently from Droid reserves, in that it would be limited to a single faction. (Not a big issue, but a mechanical strike against, in my opinon). Second, the end result would be radically different than Droid Reserves for the Republic (the followers Daala would be bringing in would have a huge amount of synergy with the rest of the faction) or the Seps (the Imperials definitely don't need an "equalizer" piece!). Finally, in a "dramatic" or "story" sense, although Daala does seem adept at continually finding allies, they'd don't really spring up out of nowhere, as the current IRs sort of imply. Here troopers are staged... just like regular military folk, and just like regular Reserves.
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