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Post by xpraider on Jan 1, 2010 16:54:48 GMT -5
She will stay as Imperial, with Affinity for the New Republic (which is essentially how she was voted in on the WotC boards). We should remove any title, and simply go with Natasi Daala (as fardreamer has done). Daala, at the end of her Imperial career is essentially identical to Daala at the beginning of her Galactic Alliance (New Republic) career: Ruthless. Anti-Jedi. Works with Mandos. In terms of the stats you guys have presented, I would suggest cutting the Squad abilities angle. She's got a lot going on already. I'm not sure if Double Reserves is the way to go, although for the Imperials, I would definitely recommend taking the "Military" route that we did with Saul Karath (non-Unique followers with a Force rating). This underscores her dislike of Jedi (no Force ratings) while keeping a number of Imperial Force-users out of NR squads. There are 46 distinct pieces that regular Reserves would work on--5 are Force-users (and, Imperial or NR, I don't see her working with the Reborn or Disciples of Ragnos...). On the commander vs follower front, there are 7 Imperial commanders her CE could bring into the NR, and most of them either affect Troopers or some specific variant, or help "one non-Unique follower." In an NR squad, I would think that would often be an EJA, which is not a good representation of the way she worked. Similarly, in an Imperial squad, taking commanders out of Reserves works well with her independent-minded (if not bordering on rogue) feel. She CAN have other commanders, but she's got to pay for 'em. (And, frankly, she doesn't exactly play well with others.) As for Mandalorian Reserves, that seems like a pretty weak squad-building choice on the whole. Since the cheapest Mando is 13, she can only bring one piece in at a time. Reserves 30 or Reinforcements 30, either just Mando or Mando/Imperial (similar to Garm) might be a better way to go, in that these at least offer more options. Another alternative would be to have her commander effect be similar to Ulic's (possibly, as someone had already suggested, limiting it to non-Uniques). She was voted in as Admiral Daala (or Admiral Natasi Daala, with a possible NR affinity). We need to do Admiral Daala. We'd just have to do later era Admiral Daala. I'm fine with increasing the Mando reserves to 30 (or giving her Mando Reinforcements 30) and since this is a late era Daala, it makes sense. I'm kind of divided on letting her in NR squads at that point then. She didn't officially join the GA until she became CoS, but she did work with them at the end of the war in LoTF. There have been a couple of characters who probably could have had an affinity with NR figures but didn't (Caedus), but others who did have affinity with the NR (Jagged Fel), so there is some precedence either way. I would prefer to keep her simply Imperial just for the reason that she wasn't really part of the GA until she became CoS, and would remove the need to give her restrictions to Force Users. Now while she didn't get along with a lot of the warlords, she did work with other officers, especially Pellaeon. I agree about the Force Users though. She definitely had a problem with them, and had attacked them several times. So, going on Fardreamer's previous version: Admiral Daala Cost: (To be determined) HP:60 Def: 18 Atk: 9 Dam: 10 Special Abilities: Unique Mandalorian Reinforcements 30 Commander Effect: Allies without a Force Rating gain Jedi Hunter. Non-unique followers are considered to have the same name for purposes of Squad abilities. Non-unique followers gain Squad Assault. About the changes I made. I originally went with he suggestion to get rid of the squad abilities, and just gave her the Jedi Hunter CE. I left out NR affinity for now. I changed the Reserves to Reinforcements, and changed it to 30 points to allow for more options with the Mandos. I also got rid of Doctrine of Fear. She seemed to change some of her tactics, and her attitude a bit later in her career, so I didn't feel it was perfectly fitting. After looking at her though, and seeing what she looked like without the squad CEs, she just seemed to be lacking something, and she didn't seem like much of a Commander with only Jedi Hunter as her CE, so I put the squad ability back in. |
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Post by gwek on Jan 1, 2010 20:17:07 GMT -5
She was voted in as Admiral Daala (or Admiral Natasi Daala, with a possible NR affinity). We need to do Admiral Daala. Speaking as the guy who took over the official voting: no, we don't. The voting was very faction-based, so the factions are set in stone, but the reason she was voted in as "Admiral Natasi Daala" is because that's what BillyD called her in the initial post on WotC. Fact is, she's one of the pieces who left WotC with her faction up for grabs. In this thread, we're discussing if we want to do her with NR Affinity or not. When put to a vote most recently, 3 out of 4 votes were for NR Affinity, so unless we get more votes to move her to strictly Imperial, we should go with the NR Affinity version. As long as we stay true to the character and the faction, there's no issue with going with a variation of the name. That probably means no title. Even if we keep something Squad-based on her (which I don't necessarily feel is in her "flavor"), I think Squad Assault is the wrong way to go. There are currently 4 commanders that offer Squad Assault: 2 of them are Imperial (and a 3rd has Order 66). There are currently 5 pieces with Squad Assault: 2 are Imperial and the remaining 3 can be played in an Imperial Squad via Order 66. To have Daala give out Squad Assault undercuts all of those pieces. While she would not make any of them obsolete (they all have something else going for them), she de-values enough pieces that I'd rather see her have something else. |
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Post by xpraider on Jan 2, 2010 3:30:52 GMT -5
She was voted in as Admiral Daala (or Admiral Natasi Daala, with a possible NR affinity). We need to do Admiral Daala. Speaking as the guy who took over the official voting: no, we don't. The voting was very faction-based, so the factions are set in stone, but the reason she was voted in as "Admiral Natasi Daala" is because that's what BillyD called her in the initial post on WotC. Fact is, she's one of the pieces who left WotC with her faction up for grabs. In this thread, we're discussing if we want to do her with NR Affinity or not. When put to a vote most recently, 3 out of 4 votes were for NR Affinity, so unless we get more votes to move her to strictly Imperial, we should go with the NR Affinity version. As long as we stay true to the character and the faction, there's no issue with going with a variation of the name. That probably means no title. Even if we keep something Squad-based on her (which I don't necessarily feel is in her "flavor"), I think Squad Assault is the wrong way to go. There are currently 4 commanders that offer Squad Assault: 2 of them are Imperial (and a 3rd has Order 66). There are currently 5 pieces with Squad Assault: 2 are Imperial and the remaining 3 can be played in an Imperial Squad via Order 66. To have Daala give out Squad Assault undercuts all of those pieces. While she would not make any of them obsolete (they all have something else going for them), she de-values enough pieces that I'd rather see her have something else. I really don't mean to be so argumentative, but while she was with the Imperials she was an Admiral, until she was Chief of State, at which point she was Chief of State. But I don't want to keep up with what is essentially a pointless discussion of what we call her. I guess part of my problem is that I really think we should do the more instantly recognizable version of Daala, which as far as I am aware would be from earlier in the NR books, and I want to make sure that we're doing a Daala that those who voted her into TNLT were looking for. But enough of that, I've stated my opinion and my objections to what we're doing, and got out voted. Natasi Daala it is. I'd rather not drag out this out into something that will go on for several pages/days. As far as the squad assault goes. That's fine if we want to change it to something else, I'd consider it's inclusion at the moment as more of a placeholder for something else. Instead of Squad Assault we could do Squad Firepower, but I'll try to think of something else that could fit, and it still wouldn't be a bad idea to go through the other CEs and try to see if anything in there fits. I've only had a chance to go through a list of them at bloomilk once, but I'll go through again and see what I can find. |
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Post by xpraider on Jan 2, 2010 10:57:03 GMT -5
Okay, so I think I've found a CE for Daala that fits her personality.
Natasi Daala
Cost: (To be determined)
HP:60
Def: 18
Atk: 9
Dam: 10
Special Abilities:
Unique
Affinty (May be in an Imperial squad)
Mandalorian Reserves 30 (If you roll exactly 20 for Initiative you may add 30 points of non-unique Mandalorians to your squad.)
Commander Effect:
Allies without a Force Rating gain Jedi Hunter. Unless otherwise restricted, you may choose to activate up to 3 characters per phase.
Okay, so I kept the Mandos as Reserves to try and keep her cost down a bit, and I removed Doctrine of Fear.
Now, the new part of her CE is a mix of Doddona and Grand Moff Tarkin. I think it fits her fighting style quite well, in that it allows her to front load her forces attacks, but leaves them vulnerable to counter attacks and opportunists. Which, how she fights is a very aggressive and strong initial strike, but gets hit by the follow up.
I tried to word it in such as way to deal with her being in a squad with Admiral Ozzel, or in dealing with going first in a round. The other thing this does is give a similar advantage to Cunning Attackers as Opportunists. Now, a NR squad gains an interesting activation advantage with both her and Dodonna, being able to activate 1-3 figures, and providing an interesting tactical choice. It's pretty much the opposite of Dodonna, and could be seen as an almost weaker version of Grand Moff Tarkin, except she doesn't need LOS to be able to choose.
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Post by Dendrite on Jan 2, 2010 11:00:28 GMT -5
I'll have to look harder a this build before I have a real opinion of it, but I would say that the "unless otherwise restricted" part of the CE doesn't have to be there. It's more her character to do things her way, not listening and barely tolerating others who think they're in charge
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Post by xpraider on Jan 2, 2010 11:15:52 GMT -5
True, but I wanted to put in the answer to the question of what happens if there's another character that deals with # of activations per turn. Ozzel restricts you to 1, while Daala allows 2-3. Which takes precedence? As far as I'm aware it would be the more restrictive, or Ozzel. I just put that wording in to answer that question in that very rule, to remove any debate about it.
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Post by bountyhunter9 on Jan 2, 2010 15:06:50 GMT -5
On NR Affinity: I don't think she should have it. From what I see, she is almost two different people - Admiral Daala and Chief of State Daala, both of whom are very different from each other. So she should either be an Imperial Admrial, or a New Republic Chief of State. Some form of cross-faction Reserves would be interesting, and possible, but I don't think Affinity would make a lot of sense.
On the version most recently posted: From how I read the CE, it appears as if (note that the "unless otherwise restricted" clause is not necessary, because Ozzel FORCES you to activate only once in a phase, while Daala would let you CHOOSE to activate the norm or once more) it's Grand Moff Tarkin (from Rebel Storm)'s CE, but not requiring line of sight to an enemy. That's a HUGE CE. Based on what you've posted since then, you should probably word similarly to General Dodonna's CE:
You can choose to activate 3 characters in each phase. (This includes Droid and Savage characters.)
Other than that, she looks pretty good, though I think we'll have to find another "hook" for her, and you can read above for my thoughts on Affinity.
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Post by fardreamer on Jan 2, 2010 15:33:31 GMT -5
What about the Mar Tuuk CE; increasing or decreasing activations by 1 if she has LOS? That way she can become quite useful in an Imperial squad with Ozzel and/or Thrawn, and she provides an alternative to Dodonna in the NR.
Thought?
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Post by xpraider on Jan 2, 2010 16:14:46 GMT -5
Good point on her CE overall though. I think we can drop the requirement wording, and go with Dodonna's wording except with allowing 3 activations instead of 1.
I'm not sure she should have Mar Tuuk's CE, simply because her aggressive nature would lead her to be more similar to Tarkin and I don't really see her holding back, and for now I'd like to avoid the LoS requirement as it can leave Commanders very vulnerable to attack. Which is not always a bad thing, but for now I'd like to avoid it. If it becomes necessary than I think we can add it.
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Post by gwek on Jan 2, 2010 19:36:54 GMT -5
Perhaps we shouldn't be too hasty with with which version we're doing. We now have 2 votes for Imperial only (vs 3 for NR Affinity). If we go with an Imperial only version, we have a variety of options. We could cut the Mando angle entirely or keep it. If we're going with angry-when-she-loses/loses-all-the-time Daala, I'll once again through out the idea of a commander effect (or many special ability?) that offers something like Karmic Luck. Maybe along the lines of: Mercurial Command (If you win initiative, allies gain +2 Attack; if you lose initiative, allies gain -2 Defense) This would represent her aggressive command style, but also how things fall apart when she doesn't get her way... I just don't know what to do with her any more...  |
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Post by fardreamer on Jan 3, 2010 4:44:59 GMT -5
If we're going with angry-when-she-loses/loses-all-the-time Daala, I'll once again through out the idea of a commander effect (or many special ability?) that offers something like Karmic Luck. Maybe along the lines of: Mercurial Command (If you win initiative, allies gain +2 Attack; if you lose initiative, allies gain -2 Defense) This would represent her aggressive command style, but also how things fall apart when she doesn't get her way... That sounds cool, but it might be a bit abusive when mixed with either Thrawn. Auto +2 attack every time? See, I agree with what's been said earlier, that to do the younger Daala is a bit dull, because its hard to see how she would stand out. Also, like others have said, we run the risk of recreating nute gunray if we're too accurate with 'Admiral Daala'. The later Daala however is a rich character, full of lots of potential interactions. ;)Can we make 2 Daalas? ;D |
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Post by gwek on Jan 3, 2010 11:07:16 GMT -5
Y'know, that might not be a bad idea, working on both an Admiral Daala (dedicated Imperial) and a Natasi Daala (Imperial with NR Affinity).
We seem to be VERY conflicted on the depiction of her, and since we've already got a setlist of 22 (2 alternates, based on who the modders can piece together), maybe adding a third alternate wouldn't be so bad.
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Post by Dendrite on Jan 3, 2010 11:41:53 GMT -5
While I'm either way on having two versions, I think at this point it would be beneficial to work on two versions so that when we're ready to make a decision, we're prepared to.
Should a seperate thread be started then?
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Post by fardreamer on Jan 3, 2010 14:57:33 GMT -5
OK, well here goes:
Admiral Daala -ImperialCost:  Hit Points: 70 Def: 16 Att: 9 Dam: 10 Special Abilities
Unique
Doctrine of Fear
Immediate Imperial Reserves 20 (If you roll a 5, 10, 15 or 20 for initiative, you may immediately add up to 20 points of non-Unique Imperial characters to your squad.) Impulsive Shot
Recon
Commander Effect:Imperial followers within 6 squares can make 1 immediate attack at +10 damage when they are defeated. Natasi Daala -New RepublicCost:  Hit Points: 60 Def: 19 Att: 8 Dam: 10
Special Abilities
Unique
Affinty (May be in an Imperial squad) Imperial Reserves 20Rapport (Your squad may include Mandalorian characters) ReconCommander Effect:You choose to activate up to 3 characters each phase Thoughts? |
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Post by darthgrievous on Jan 3, 2010 19:50:04 GMT -5
I mean they arent that bad, but nothing about either version stands out to me at all. Both just look like a couple of pieces I wouldnt use.
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