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Post by gwek on Jul 2, 2010 14:29:04 GMT -5
Probably after we fiddle with the language for the Talisman first.
Could she turn people into Raks with her touch? If so, I'm okay with not qualifying the type of defeat.
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Post by surfrider56 on Jul 2, 2010 17:12:28 GMT -5
We seem to actually have two questions still
1. Muir wording. Currently, we have ...
Muur Talisman (Force 3, replaces turn: 30 damage to all living characters within 3 squares. Whenever this character defeats a living enemy, you can immediately add a character named Rakghoul to your squad. The new character sets up in a square that enemy formerly occupied.)
How exactly do we want to word it using touch? "Whenever this character defeats a living enemy within 3 squares" to reflect the Muir attack? Other suggestions?
2. Lightsaber Defense OR Dark Temptation? I still like DT because of the Muir presence in Celeste.
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Post by gwek on Jul 7, 2010 9:10:05 GMT -5
I was thinking about Muur Talisman, and maybe it should be a special ability rather than a Force power? Although it's quite potent, it replaces turn, so unless she has sufficient support, she's not going to be able to pull it off too often. I'm not sure if this will all fit on the card, but: Celeste MorneCost: Faction: Fringe Hit Points: 90 Defense: 18 Attack: 10 Damage: 20 Special Abilities:Unique. Melee Attack; Double Attack. Muur Talisman (Replaces turn: 30 damage to all living characters within 3 squares. Whenever this character defeats a living enemy, you can immediately add a character named Rakghoul to your squad. The new character sets up in a square that enemy formerly occupied.) Stealth (If this character has cover, she does not count as the nearest enemy for an attacker farther than 6 squares when choosing targets) Force Powers:Force 4Dark Temptation (Force 1: +4 Attack and +20 Damage until the end of this character's turn. At the end of that turn, make a save of 11; if this save fails, this character joins the opponent's squad until the end of the skirmish.) Lightsaber Defense (Force 1: When hit by an attack, this character takes no damage with a save of 11) Commander Effect:Savage characters are subject to this effect: Rakghoul allies get +4 Attack and are not affected by the movement restrictions of Savage. Not sure if it'll all fit on the card. Although she has an "average" number of abilities, the character count is 971, which is pretty high. DT accounts for 228 of that.
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Post by Dendrite on Jul 7, 2010 9:13:49 GMT -5
That looks good. I like the simplicity of the Talisman. It'll be easy to remember for players familiar with Rakghouls.
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Post by gwek on Jul 7, 2010 9:18:26 GMT -5
Unfortunately, I have a feeling that we may need to lose DT.
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Post by surfrider56 on Jul 7, 2010 12:27:08 GMT -5
Unfortunately, I have a feeling that we may need to lose DT. So if we ditch DT which is a shame because it fits her so well, do we gain Lightsaber Defense?
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Post by gwek on Jul 7, 2010 12:39:08 GMT -5
I'm pretty sure we can fit LS Defense without DT.
I THINK we can fit DT without LS Def.
I'm pretty sure we CAN'T fit both.
My personal preference would be to keep DT if it'll fit, even if it's at the expense of LS Defense.
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Post by surfrider56 on Jul 7, 2010 12:43:16 GMT -5
I'm pretty sure we can fit LS Defense without DT. I THINK we can fit DT without LS Def. I'm pretty sure we CAN'T fit both. My personal preference would be to keep DT if it'll fit, even if it's at the expense of LS Defense. Agreed on my part; rather have Dark Temptation over Lightsaber Defense on her .... Other Opinions?
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Post by Dendrite on Jul 7, 2010 19:26:08 GMT -5
If a choice must be made, then DT is the one to keep
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Post by bountyhunter9 on Jul 7, 2010 21:44:15 GMT -5
I'm confused. Does Muur Talisman allow Celeste to convert allies to Rakghouls if she makes an attack?
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Post by gwek on Jul 7, 2010 22:54:16 GMT -5
My personal preference would be for Celeste to create a Rak no matter how she defeats somebody, but I think that might require breaking up Muur Talisman into 2 different abilities/powers again.
I guess the current wording is confusing/ambiguous.
Hm.
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Post by surfrider56 on Jul 8, 2010 0:52:21 GMT -5
My personal preference would be for Celeste to create a Rak no matter how she defeats somebody, but I think that might require breaking up Muur Talisman into 2 different abilities/powers again. I guess the current wording is confusing/ambiguous. Hm. Ok ... lets look at Muir as it is now Muur Talisman (Replaces turn: 30 damage to all living characters within 3 squares. Whenever this character defeats a living enemy, you can immediately add a character named Rakghoul to your squad. The new character sets up in a square that enemy formerly occupied.) How about changing "Whenever this character defeats a living enemy" to "If this attack defeats a living enemy" This would cut the ambiguity of what creates the Rak. The new ability would now read ... Muur Talisman (Replaces turn: 30 damage to all living characters within 3 squares. If this attack defeats a living enemy, you can immediately add a character named Rakghoul to your squad. The new character sets up in a square that enemy formerly occupied.) Thoughts?
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Post by gwek on Jul 8, 2010 1:24:02 GMT -5
Although that does clarify things, I kinda liked that she could use Dark Temptation (theoretically) to her advantage to help her make more Raks.
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Post by surfrider56 on Jul 8, 2010 9:57:47 GMT -5
Although that does clarify things, I kinda liked that she could use Dark Temptation (theoretically) to her advantage to help her make more Raks. If we keep DT, how else might we change the wording? ... and since we may lose DT, isn't that a moot point?
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Post by gwek on Jul 8, 2010 10:42:05 GMT -5
I think the simplest thing to accomplish what I'm pitching would be to break it back into two abilities.
If we lose DT, it's still a bit of an issue, because it goes to the question of "How easy should it be for Celeste to make new Raks?"
If she can only do it using the Muur Talisman, it's pretty hard (unless she's in the right build) because the ability replaces turn. She needs to be within 6 squares of a living creature with 30 HP or less to pull it off.
If she can also turn them via an attack, that's a whole different ball of wax, and completely changes how she would be played (and possibly statted). She becomes a very dangerous scrub-killer (with a good shot or turning any fodder piece with 20 HP or less into a Rak). She also serves as an effective "finisher", allowing a big gun to go first, to soften up an opponent, before she comes in to turn the wounded enemy into a Rak.
I'm not saying that one idea is better than the other, or that I even have a preference, but the decision of HOW she can create Raks has very big impact on her design.
If she can only do it via the Talisman, for example, she would probably be better served by Anticipation or Surprise Move than she would be by Lightsaber Defense or Dark Temptation.
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