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Post by gwek on May 7, 2010 11:16:47 GMT -5
I agree.
Unfortunatly, though, I think there may still be work to be done. Surf, can you try to mirror WOtC's spacing, margins, and fonts (style and size) a little better? This still looks very forced on to me when compared with WotC cards.
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Post by surfrider56 on May 7, 2010 12:34:45 GMT -5
Unfortunatly, though, I think there may still be work to be done. Surf, can you try to mirror WOtC's spacing, margins, and fonts (style and size) a little better? This still looks very forced on to me when compared with WotC cards. Would love to, but I'd be guessing; anybody have an idea what they used besides FB Agency? I'm just going by what looks good as far as spacing & margins ... and of course what fits.
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Post by bountyhunter9 on May 7, 2010 16:22:09 GMT -5
RS is probably right. If we drop both those FPs, her cost should probably drop a bit. I'd say anywhere from 37-42 would be good.
Unfortunately, I'm not much help on the card details.
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Post by surfrider56 on May 27, 2010 22:58:53 GMT -5
Ok ... back to the drawing board; If we're worried about lines/need for room, well, since Muir is at the bottom of this piece, maybe we need to drop Repulse and bring back DT and Lightning. There I said it ... you guys wanted Repulse so bad, its pushed us into a corner and we're stuck otherwise ... always open to better ideas
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Post by gwek on May 28, 2010 0:03:49 GMT -5
It all depends on what interpretation of the character we want, I suppose. We didn't focus on Force Repulse at random: early on, the push was to replicate her ability to transform multiple targets into Rakghouls at once. Force Repulse was a potential way to do that (certainly, the best I could come up with, at least without creating more new abilities...). Dark Temptation, to me, was interesting because it worked well with the Muur Talisman (the version that was a variant of Rakghoul disease). Although the version below does not have as much punch as earlier ones, I think it's close to fitting on the card: ***** Celeste Morne Cost: Hit Points: 90 Defense: 18 Attack: +10 Damage: 20 Special Abilities: Unique. Melee Attack; Double Attack Stealth (If this character has cover, she does not count as the nearest enemy for an attacker farther than 6 squares when choosing targets) Rakghoul Disease (+10 Damage to living enemy; save 11. Whenever this character defeats a living enemy, you can immediately add a character named Rakghoul to your squad. The new character sets up in a square that enemy formerly occupied.) Force Powers: Force 2. Force Renewal 1 Force Repulse 3 (Force 3, replaces turn: 30 damage to all characters within 3 squares; push back Huge or smaller characters to 4 squares from this character. Huge or smaller characters are considered activated this round; save 11.) Commander Effect: Savage characters are subject to this effect: Rakghoul allies get +4 Attack and are not affected by the movement restrictions of Savage. ***** Thoughts?
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Post by Dendrite on May 28, 2010 8:30:54 GMT -5
If it means getting it to fit, it'll work for me
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Post by surfrider56 on May 28, 2010 16:32:24 GMT -5
It all depends on what interpretation of the character we want, I suppose. We didn't focus on Force Repulse at random: early on, the push was to replicate her ability to transform multiple targets into Rakghouls at once. Force Repulse was a potential way to do that (certainly, the best I could come up with, at least without creating more new abilities...). Dark Temptation, to me, was interesting because it worked well with the Muur Talisman (the version that was a variant of Rakghoul disease). Although the version below does not have as much punch as earlier ones, I think it's close to fitting on the card: ***** Celeste Morne Cost: Hit Points: 90 Defense: 18 Attack: +10 Damage: 20 Special Abilities: Unique. Melee Attack; Double Attack Stealth (If this character has cover, she does not count as the nearest enemy for an attacker farther than 6 squares when choosing targets) Rakghoul Disease (+10 Damage to living enemy; save 11. Whenever this character defeats a living enemy, you can immediately add a character named Rakghoul to your squad. The new character sets up in a square that enemy formerly occupied.) Force Powers: Force 2. Force Renewal 1 Force Repulse 3 (Force 3, replaces turn: 30 damage to all characters within 3 squares; push back Huge or smaller characters to 4 squares from this character. Huge or smaller characters are considered activated this round; save 11.) Commander Effect: Savage characters are subject to this effect: Rakghoul allies get +4 Attack and are not affected by the movement restrictions of Savage. ***** Thoughts? Nope, even after a quick peek, its too big; the CE won't fit at all and after you space/enlarge Titles ... I could be wrong; GF may be the best judge of what fits ... Remember ... the box we're writing in here is Twice the size, easily of a card. There are 13 lines here in this box ...easily 26-27 on a card with spaces and larger Titles.
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Post by Roque Saber on May 28, 2010 16:48:11 GMT -5
Gwek, I don't suppose you would let her go if the definition of Repulse was omitted? Could we try to simplify the Talisman? That's what really killing us atm.
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Post by bountyhunter9 on May 28, 2010 16:54:17 GMT -5
Seems my post was lost. Oh well, I'll summarize it:
I suggested Force Burst because it provides a similar effect to Force Repulse and takes up a lot less space. However, it is obviously less effective and we should keep Repulse as long as we have the room.
The new bare-bones version looks pretty good; I'd be in favour of dropping the Talisman for Rak disease if it means fitting her stats on a card.
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Post by surfrider56 on May 28, 2010 20:40:40 GMT -5
This is the card Without Repulse or the CE. This is merely to show how much room we have/need ....
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Post by gwek on May 29, 2010 6:09:43 GMT -5
Sorry, Surf, but I don't like that version at all. I think it takes away pretty much everything good about the version we'd worked on!
To me, the core of the character centers on the ability to transform multiple characters in Rakghouls. How we accomplish that remains to be seen, but things like Lightsaber Defense and Dark Temptation are just window dressing. I think Force Lightning can go out the window entirely.
Perhaps the solution is to re-create Muur Talisman as a Force power, combining aspects of Rakghoul Disease and Force repulse? The downside to this would be that a regular attack would create a Rak, but that might be okay.
Surf, did you try fitting my suggested version on a card? I understand that it's "too many lines", but you can't judge JUST by counting lines. I have significantly fewer characters than Yoda, Force Spirit. Not saying you can judge just by character count, either, but I think it's worth considering as a starting point, especially since there are other ways to gain space if we get close.
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Post by Galak Fyyar on May 29, 2010 8:02:57 GMT -5
I could be wrong; GF may be the best judge of what fits ... Attachments:
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Post by xpraider on May 29, 2010 9:12:14 GMT -5
Just going to repost what I said about changes we can make earlier. I think we need to simplify as many things as we can to get this to fit. So, Drop DT, Drop Lightning. From here we have 2 options. Change the Muur Talisman to this: Muur Talisman (Whenever this character defeats a living enemy without a Force Rating, you can immediately add a character named Rakghoul to your squad. The new character sets up in a square that enemy formerly occupied). or Change it to this: Muur Talisman (Whenever this character defeats a living enemy without a Force Rating, you can immediately add a character named Muur Rakghoul to your squad. The new character sets up in a square that enemy formerly occupied). If we do the first version, we are doing the most simple version, which should simplify things a bit and hopeful keep down the amount of text on the card, but if we do it like this it doesn't really add any of the complexity that the Raks Celeste made had. If we do the 2nd version, than we are making it a bit more complex, but only by transferring the complexity to another character, which should make it possible to give the Raks the abilities we want them to have, without having Celeste's card getting clogged. And while I know GWEK doesn't like the idea of Celeste removing Savage from the Raks, I think simply having her remove Savage from the Raks (and just the Raks) and giving them a bonus, both simplifies and still somewhat represents what she is doing to the Raks with the Talisman.
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Post by gwek on May 29, 2010 20:23:33 GMT -5
From GF's concept card, it looks like my bare-bones version fits pretty well... now, we have to figure out if we like it or not!
If we want to nerf her a little, we could combine Rakghoul Disease and Force Repulse into a single Force power that would give us room for another ability.
One strange thing with the current combo: Celeste can defeat an opponent of any size and replace it with a Rakghoul.
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Post by surfrider56 on May 30, 2010 1:07:38 GMT -5
If I read GF's card correctly, she'll get 1 Double ranged attack at +40 and then unless she has a Force Battery to help, it'll take three turns to power up enough for another serious shot (Seems to me that leaves her as a target before she recharges; is this worth her cost?
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