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Jerec
Dec 19, 2009 12:38:12 GMT -5
Post by bountyhunter9 on Dec 19, 2009 12:38:12 GMT -5
Those stats look good, but I think a cost of 39 is a bit too low, the cost you had in the OP (of 43) would be spot-on, IMO.
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Jerec
Dec 19, 2009 12:59:11 GMT -5
Post by Roque Saber on Dec 19, 2009 12:59:11 GMT -5
I agree. Low to mid 40's would probably be a bit more balanced.
As for Destruction, we don't really have any precedents for how much damage adjacent's take. Pretty much all "splashing" force powers do equal damage to the target as to adjacents (though that obviously wouldn't work here). I though -20 would work well, but if we want to make it half damage, I think that would be fine as well.
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Jerec
Dec 19, 2009 13:04:01 GMT -5
Post by Dendrite on Dec 19, 2009 13:04:01 GMT -5
Those stats look good, but I think a cost of 39 is a bit too low, the cost you had in the OP (of 43) would be spot-on, IMO. Right. Not sure what I was thinking. Editing How about this for Destruction, then? Force Destruction (Force 4, replaces turn, sight; 50 damage and 20 damage to each adjacent character)
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Jerec
Dec 19, 2009 13:18:12 GMT -5
Post by Roque Saber on Dec 19, 2009 13:18:12 GMT -5
I think we had suggested that Destruction deal half damage to adjacents, so:
Force Destruction (Force 4, replaces turn, sight; 60 damage and 30 damage to each adjacent character)
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Jerec
Dec 19, 2009 13:21:27 GMT -5
Post by Dendrite on Dec 19, 2009 13:21:27 GMT -5
Right. Looks good, so now we have:
Jerec - 43pts
HP: 120 DEF: 20 ATT: 15 DA: 20
-Unique -Melee Attack -Double Attack -Lightsaber Duelist -Its A Trap
Force 2 Renewal 1 -Force Absorb -Sith Lightning -Force Destruction (Force 4, replaces turn, sight; 60 damage and 30 damage to each adjacent character) -Sith Hatred
CE: Non-unique followers with a Force Rating start with +1 force
Do we want to make Destruction 5 fps for doing that much, or keep it at 4?
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Jerec
Dec 20, 2009 14:11:01 GMT -5
Post by gwek on Dec 20, 2009 14:11:01 GMT -5
I would up the cost of Destruction to 5. That's a lot of damage, and "sight" makes nervous.
A few other thoughts:
I'm not sure that the commander effect is appropriate for Jerec. To me, it implies that he's a teacher/instructor type, which he wasn't. It also sort of implies that he works with large numbers of Force-users (non-Unique followers often, I think, implies sort of an "army"), while in reality, he worked with a very small number of fellow dark Jedi. The CE to me, doesn't "feel like Jerec."
I also question Lightsaber Duelist. As customizers, we sometimes give the ability out like candy, but in reality, only very small number of pieces have it. There are 18 pieces with it (which includes 4 Dookus, 2 Kyles, and 2 Malaks).
Lightsaber Duelist appears to be limited primarily to:
1) Those from an era where dueling as common (9 of 18 are from the Old Republic era)
2) Exceptional duelists (4 different versions of Dooku)
3) Dueling instructors (Kyle Katarn, Cin Drallig/JWM, and possibly Kol Skywalker)
Jerec doesn't fall into any of those categories. I don't think it belongs on him. It implies that he's one of the best duelists in his era (which is not really how he's portrayed, from my recollection).
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Jerec
Dec 20, 2009 14:48:20 GMT -5
Post by Dendrite on Dec 20, 2009 14:48:20 GMT -5
Perhaps it would be appropriate to draw some ideas from the DT Imperial Inquisitor, since thats what Jerec was.
I suppose if he's not eligible for LD, then Dark Inspiration wouldn't be appropriate. Dark Master? If we wanted him to be as if he had been exposed to the Valley of the Jedi, then perhaps boost his Force Renewal to 2? The balance factor is that Force Destruction would be used a lot more often, and it is pretty powerful.
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Jerec
Dec 20, 2009 15:07:43 GMT -5
Post by gwek on Dec 20, 2009 15:07:43 GMT -5
Do we want a "Jedi Valley" version? Aren't those abilities only in play when he's actually there?
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Jerec
Dec 20, 2009 23:02:03 GMT -5
Post by bountyhunter9 on Dec 20, 2009 23:02:03 GMT -5
I think LS Duelist fits relatively well. He instructed his Dark Jedi in some aspects of dueling, and he himself would have to be better than them. Also, an excerpt from the Wook (yeah, it's not the best source, but anyways...):
Other areas of particular power were telekinesis, in which he had great control, and in the defensive aspects of lightsaber fighting; Jerec's defense was a difficult one to penetrate.[2]
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Jerec
Dec 21, 2009 0:04:27 GMT -5
Post by Roque Saber on Dec 21, 2009 0:04:27 GMT -5
I also like Duelist, but to please GWEk I think I might have found an alternative.
"Jerec also went to great lengths to cultivate an aura of mystery and power around himself, which built a fearful reputation for him, something he seemed to relish"
From that text, Doctrine of Fear seems to be a perfect fit. And (not exactly), but it would have a very similar effect when fighting in close quarters (enemy has -4 attack instead of him gaining +4 defense).
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Jerec
Dec 21, 2009 1:05:40 GMT -5
Post by gwek on Dec 21, 2009 1:05:40 GMT -5
Hey, don't do it just to please me. I'm pointing out the types of characters who have LS Duelist. If you guys feel Jerec belongs in that company, so be it.
Doctrine of Fear does seem to be a pretty good fit, though (at least based on Wookieepedia and what I remember from those Dark Horse novellas... I must admit that I never played the JA games with Jerec in them; thus my ignorance of Destruction).
I'll sign off on either LS Duelist or Doctrine of Fear.
Any possibility of a more appropriate CE? Otherwise, I think we're close to done on him, yes?
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Jerec
Dec 21, 2009 1:27:16 GMT -5
Post by gwek on Dec 21, 2009 1:27:16 GMT -5
FYI, not factoring in a Commander Effect, my cost generator puts him at 49, which I think is about right. If you compare him to the two versions of Vader's Apprentice, he has comparable stats, but a bigger bag of tricks and a better range of Force powers (especially in terms of cost/usefulness in different cirumstances).
Honestly, I think pricing him below 50 is a big generous (not to the point where I have a problem with it, as long as it's not far below). The fact that he's a commander doesn't penalize him much as an Imperial. There are only 1 or 2 CEs that would have otherwise affected him, I think.
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Jerec
Dec 21, 2009 9:28:23 GMT -5
Post by bountyhunter9 on Dec 21, 2009 9:28:23 GMT -5
Doctrine of Fear is interesting, like Gwek I could with either it or LS Duelist. I think we need more opinions on that matter.
As for the CE, I'm not sure what to do. Maybe something like:
Unique followers with a Force rating within 6 squares gain +4 attack.
Or maybe something more unique:
Unique followers with a Force rating may reroll one failed attack a turn.
Thougts? Anyone else have any better ideas?
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Jerec
Dec 21, 2009 10:55:53 GMT -5
Post by Dendrite on Dec 21, 2009 10:55:53 GMT -5
One thing to keep in mind is that Admiral Daala is in this set, who I believe is a very good canidate for Doctrine of Fear. Depending on how many DoFs we want in this set for the sake of uniqueness, it wmay be best to stay with LD for Jerec (since DoF is a very singular ability, more than most)
A few minutes ago, I replayed the ending of DF2 to analyze his fighting. He blocks most of my attacks, and makes many of his own, especially after I attack. (Although he's not know for any particular practice of LS style, some have commented on his use of what looks to be Makashi, although his Riposte-ish attack suggests a bit of Djem So) All in all, I still think LD fits, as his stance and walk as well while we were fighting was that of a duelist.
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Jerec
Dec 21, 2009 11:02:35 GMT -5
Post by Dendrite on Dec 21, 2009 11:02:35 GMT -5
CE: Followers with a Force Rating gain Quick Reactions and Cunning Attack
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