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Post by bountyhunter9 on May 30, 2010 14:22:31 GMT -5
I think I agree with Gwek. This piece would take a lot more effort than Ganner would to fit on a card, I think. A start would be to drop Rapport and change up the CE completely, assuming we want to keep Hoth. But it might still need more work from there (most likely will).
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Post by Roque Saber on May 30, 2010 14:39:12 GMT -5
For the CE, removing the whole thing with Force Spirit would save a ton of room. Charging Assault is still a potent CE, so I don't think he'll lose a whole lot.
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Post by bountyhunter9 on May 30, 2010 17:21:48 GMT -5
That sounds like a good start. Would Charging Assault +10 be better than Charging Fire? I would say yes, because as far as I can remember Hoth worked with mostly melee fighters, but I want to make sure we consider all of our options.
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Post by surfrider56 on Jun 1, 2010 20:49:55 GMT -5
Hoth worked with mostly melee fighters, but I want to make sure we consider all of our options. How about retasking him as a CE General that can impart Valor and Mettle? Or an OR Booming Voice in his own right?
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Post by gwek on Jun 1, 2010 21:52:27 GMT -5
Or how about we kill him.
I mean, come on, let's kill him.
Once Lord Hoth was officially made by WotC, he officially fell outside the goal of this project. He is no longer part of the our setlist.
IF we had stats that were ready (or somewhere close to ready), I'd be completely behind releasing his stats as "bonus" stats, as an extra so that our previous work didn't go to waste, but since we're going to have to go back to the drawing board, it's now MORE work going to waste for a piece that will just be a "bonus."
I vote that we stop with Hoth and Ganner and focus on the 20 pieces in the ACTUAL Next Lost Twenty.
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Post by surfrider56 on Jun 2, 2010 0:43:13 GMT -5
Or how about we kill him. I mean, come on, let's kill him. I am actually amused (and Surprised) that you'd say the Gw. Here's your chance to "fix" the OR with a piece that could potentially give the OR some serious help with a d**n good CE (and who could argue that Hoth, Leader of the Army of Light couldn't do it) and you want to just Junk Him??? Is this one of the signs of the Apocalypse??
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Post by gwek on Jun 2, 2010 7:22:53 GMT -5
Possibly, I haven't said this:
HE'S NOT PART OF THE NEXT LOST TWENTY ANYMORE.
Why waste time on him?
We had a list of 22 pieces so we had some flexibility. WotC took away our flexibility when they made official versions of Hoth and Ganner and...
Maybe I didn't mention this, but HE'S NOT PART OF THE NEXT LOST TWENTY!!!!
I'd love to help the Old Rep with The Revanchist or Carth Onasi, Old Republic Hero, but they are no more (or no less) subject to the guidelines of this project than is Lord Hoth.
The LOST Twenty represents 20 pieces that WotC should have made, but did not. That no longer applies to Lord Hoth.
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Post by bountyhunter9 on Jun 2, 2010 15:26:33 GMT -5
While I agree with Gwek that neither Hoth nor Ganner are part of the NLT after MotF, I find it surprising that you, Gwek, would say that you would release their stats if we had them ready. We're all experienced customizers. Each of us could easily come up with multiple, different versions of both Hoth and Ganner in a relatively short period of time. I don't think reworking Hoth and Ganner would "dilute" our efforts on the other pieces at all.
I'm not really for or against keeping them, but I wouldn't mind releasing a set of 'alternate' stats or something similar. If we cut Hoth and Ganner because they don't fit the goal of the NLT, fine by me. But I don't think we should cut them because we have "too much work" or that it would "waste our time".
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Post by gwek on Jun 2, 2010 20:18:59 GMT -5
While I agree with Gwek that neither Hoth nor Ganner are part of the NLT after MotF, I find it surprising that you, Gwek, would say that you would release their stats if we had them ready. If I recall correctly, the discussion after the release of the MotF setlist went something like this: "Well, I guess Lord Hoth and Ganner are off the list. Good think we have Watto and the yammosk as alternates. A shame, though, that we spent all tht time working on them and it's going to waste." "Well, since they're ready, we might as well release them as bonus peices. Won't cost us anything to do that." Fast-forward a few months, to the realization that neither character is likely to fit on a card, and both will require additional work. While I'm mildly sorry to see our previous work go to waste, there's no need to continue with them, in my opinion. Therein, however, lies the problem. Any ONE of us could certainly come up with stats very quickly... But getting us all to agree? Could take weeks (the last version did.) Or months (many other pieces have). If we're going to continue working on these characters, why not just start working on a bunch of other characters who are already represented by WotC and who will require is to do additional work? I vote for The Revanchist and Carth Onasi, Hero of the Old Republic. I'll all for Ganner and Hoth as part of a different project, but we've been at this for almost half a year and STILL don't have final versions for three of the actual 20 (not to mention the 4-6 who will now require that we re-work them).
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Post by bountyhunter9 on Jun 2, 2010 21:06:17 GMT -5
I don't think it would take an enormous amount of time to get Ganner to fit on a card. Hoth is another story, likely needing complete revision, but Ganner can be done. With Hoth, we already have some good ideas that can be easily turned into a piece. Give him Vader-like stats (slightly lower defense), Triple Attack, incorporate the Charging Assault element of our far-too-large design, give him Force 2 with FR and Lightsaber Defense and Force Valor and/or a simple CE (probably with an attack boost, or an ability that does that, if we go without Force Valor; otherwise, this isn't entirely necessary).
That's not too different from what we were working with before, but with the 'filler' abilities removed and a reworked CE.
As for working on other piece...well, I'm on this site pretty much every day. I can find the time to work on these pieces, even with the school year winding down and work and activites piling up. I'm not saying that everyone should spend hours on here, no, I understand that some of us have full time jobs and families of there own, etc., which are far more important that our work here. But I can post, on all of the threads that are currently being posted on, in 10 minutes easily if I need to (usually I take more time). Also, we've been working with 22 (23?) pieces for the duration of our work here, and we've made good progress on most of them. We could get Ganner done in a week with some minor changes. Hoth may take longer, but rather than having 4-6 pieces that need revision, we have 5-7, and get to add a set of bonus stats to the NLT.
Really, it's not up to me whether or not we kill Hoth or Ganner. If we think we can find the extra couple minutes every few days to comment on their progress, we can do it. If not, we should scrap them without hesitation.
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icepaw
Jedi Youngling
skipping is running for people who have fun with life.
Posts: 14
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Post by icepaw on Jul 27, 2010 16:06:52 GMT -5
wait a moment i just pulled this unit in masters of the force!
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Post by Dendrite on Jul 27, 2010 20:41:52 GMT -5
wait a moment i just pulled this unit in masters of the force! We had decided and done work on this character before MOTF came out...but now that he's an official figure, we're not working with him
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