Sith Elite Assassin (HotOR)

[gwek]

Apr 17, 2009 23:23:14 GMT -5 Sharrakor said:

Are you sure? What Kaan and the Dark Brotherhood? I'd say some form of Squad ability, or if need be, Synergy could be handed out by him.

Kaan and his Dark Brotherhood were characterized by squabbling, internal strife, and an inability to work together properly. That's why Bane instituted the Rule of Two in the first place!

[gwek]

Apr 18, 2009 11:16:16 GMT -5 Jm419 said:

No, I like the CE. These guys did work in squads in the game, and they were much more effective with four invisible guys hitting you with pointy sticks than one doing the same thing. I seem to recall just running around pressing attack and hoping I'd hit one.

A few thoughts here. First, it's a slippery slope to use the video game for more than thematic inspiration. This is something we discussed at length when working on the first KotOR virtual set: MOST enemies in the game fall back to using the same tactics. MOST of the low-end opponents use squad-based tactics.

Having said that, you're completely correct that the Sith Assassins worked in small units, and I wouldn't have a problem with THEM having a Squad-type ability.

But they don't, and the Sith Elite Assassin doesn't give them that ability, and that's not what I'm talking about.

Here's what I'm talking about with my potential thematic problem with Dark Sentinel and the like:

For the Old Republic pieces, I used the Sentinel, Consular, and Guardian abilities as an extension of the Soldier ability, to largely help the Jedi take advantage of the Old Rep's squad-themed abilities (which gives them a little bit of a unique niche: the Old Rep, Rep, and, to a lesser extent, Empire, are the only factions really taking advantage of those abilities to take).

Broad-based use of Squad-themed commander effects works in the Old Republic because a) it's a dynamic that WotC started with the OR Captain, and b) the Old Republic Jedi, like their soldiers, are seen to train to together, follow the same tactics, etc.

The Sith are philosophically very different. Sure, the soldiers and troopers work together (as soldiers and troopers of any faction or era do), but the Force-users (unlike the Jedi) come from all different walks of life, with all different manner and level of training. And at the center of the Sith is the idea that might makes right, and that you win not by cooperating, but by besting enemy and ally alike.

From that viewpoint, I think it would do a disservice to both the Sith and the Old Republic to port over the idea of using a lot of Squad-themed commander effects for them.

So if that's the eventual idea, I guess this is sort of a pre-emptive "Whoa, let's talk about that!"

[Sharrakor]

Apr 18, 2009 14:07:09 GMT -5 gwek said:

So if that's the eventual idea, I guess this is sort of a pre-emptive "Whoa, let's talk about that!"

Well, I don't intend to steal the Squad abilities from the OR, but I do intend to do something.

Apr 18, 2009 13:51:38 GMT -5 gwek said:

Kaan and his Dark Brotherhood were characterized by squabbling, internal strife, and an inability to work together properly. That's why Bane instituted the Rule of Two in the first place!

Really? From what I remember, the Sith were squabbling before Kaan brought them together. At least, until Bane showed up.

[gwek]

Apr 18, 2009 19:35:20 GMT -5 Sharrakor said:

Apr 18, 2009 14:07:09 GMT -5 gwek said:

Well, I don't intend to steal the Squad abilities from the OR, but I do intend to do something.

Just to be clear, it's not necessarily "stealing from the OR" that I'd have a problem with, but that I don't think the idea would be appropriate for the Sith (for that matter, I also don't think excessive amounts of Squad abilities would be appropriate to, say, the Rebels... but I digress!).

Really? From what I remember, the Sith were squabbling before Kaan brought them together. At least, until Bane showed up.

Kaan did very little to unite the Sith. His main accomplishment, if I recall, was pretty much saying "anyone who wants to add Lord in front of his name can."

But the point is that the Sith--regardless of era--aren't exactly characterized by unity and a "let's work together for the betterment of our faction" philosophy.

[Jm419]

All of the above is true. I, however, am going to tend to agree with Gwek on this one. Sorry Sharrakor, but the Sith philosophy doesn't work well in this type of gameplay. There are isolated cases, of course.

[gwek]

Which--I hasten to add--doesn't mean that there shouldn't be ANY Squad-based abilities used for the Sith, just that they should be reviewed carefully (and maybe primarily limited to non-Force-users?).

[Jm419]

Right. Unless they fit with canon.

[Sharrakor]

I intend to do something with it however. Something.

[Jm419]

The Sith Assassins are a good example of squad based abilities within the Sith.

[bountyhunter9]

They are, but, to me at least, they seemed to swarm you more than work together to kill you. They were relatively weak, but quite dangerous in large numbers. Maybe, just to throw an idea out there: maybe change the CE to giving Sith Assassins Swarm +1? If you're going for something squad-based (or relatively similar), would this be better? It may be too powerful, but I thought I would throw something out there.

What do you guys think?

[Jm419]

That's a good alternative.

[generalgrevious]

I like him.
The only thing I have to maybe change is change Double to Twin. I think it fits the whole assassin thing.

He would work good with a lot of combos!

[Jm419]

Double to Twin...hmm. What do people think?

[bountyhunter9]

I don't know, it does seem more like an assassin (especially because I think he had two sabers in the game), but with Krayt he suddenly goes from two-attack support piece to four attack-heavy-hitter. That may not be a problem, but on a non-unique with lots of options, it could be. What do you guys think?

[generalgrevious]

Isn't Krayt for only followers though?