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Post by gwek on Jan 28, 2009 23:56:11 GMT -5
Master Vandar Tokare
Cost: 17
Faction: Old Republic
Hit Points: 80
Defense: 20
Attack: 0
Damage: 0
Force 2; Force Renewal 1
Force Alter (Force 1: range 6; any 1 enemy rerolls its last attack)
Force Coordination (Force 2; allies' commander effects normally limited to 6 squares have unlimited range for this round)
Force Disruption (Force 3; suppresses enemy commander effects this round)
Force Heal 20 (Force 2, replaces attacks: touch; remove 20 damage from a living character)
Design Notes -- Master Vandar Tokare
Tokare is designed as the ultimate coordinator. His key abilities are Force Coordination and Force Disruption, and while Force Renewal means that he will be able to use both multiple times, the fact that he does not have Master of the Force means that he will have to choose between them (or not use either). Although both are very powerful abilities, the relatively high cost means that he won't be able to use one or the other every round.
The choice here really is whether to make your own forces better, or to mess with the other guy. Both are going to be very useful--game-changing, really--if used properly.
Force Heal and Force Alter were added almost as afterthoughts. Not that he NEEDS to be any more useful, but these abilities give him something to do other than coordinate.
If you're playing Vandar right, he shouldn't be on the frontline, but sequestered away on some sort of "command section" (possibly with Forn Dodonna).
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Post by Sharrakor on Jan 29, 2009 0:18:13 GMT -5
Don't you already have Master Vandar Tokare floating around somewhere?
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Post by gwek on Jan 29, 2009 1:43:48 GMT -5
We did a Vandar in Hoverchair in the previous go-around, but that was a few years (and many sets) ago.
I've just posted two different versions of Vandar today.
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Post by Sharrakor on Jan 29, 2009 4:08:53 GMT -5
Yeah, and there's a third one that's very similar to this, and done by you. Master Vandar TokareI'll bump it up as well. |
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Post by gwek on Jan 30, 2009 12:28:46 GMT -5
As Sharrakor points out, I had two different version of the same concept (I forgot that I'd managed to salvage one last week!). I'm going to change the other thread to something else.
THIS Vandar is the version that was salvaged from the last mod board, with benefited from a little feedback that the newer version didn't have.
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Post by gwek on Feb 1, 2009 18:43:02 GMT -5
So here's a second version of Vandar from Virtual KotOR. Any thoughts?
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Post by maverick on Feb 4, 2009 6:38:44 GMT -5
The force powers the effect CE's seem a little too much, at least for the cost
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Post by gwek on Feb 4, 2009 11:56:12 GMT -5
Not sure I agree. Putting aside the other Force powers for a moment, Force Coordination and Force Disruption are based on Booming Voice and Disruptive, respectively. However, the Force abilities are more LIMITED versions*, since they require Force points and, unlike the special abilities, are not "always on." Indeed, without some other character to support him, Vandar cannot use both at the same time.
A caveat: Disruptive is limited to 6 squares, but FD has an unlimited range. That is negotiable, so let's not stick on that for now.
So the question becomes "How cheap are Booming Voice and Disruptive?"
There's only one example of Booming Voice. Mas Amedda costs 8. He has unique and melee attack, both of which reduce his price but Vandar is ALSO unique, and has no attack, so those essentially "cancel out." Mas has 30 HP and Defense of 14, which costs a point or 2. Affinity costs at least 1. Cunning attack, probably 2. Subtract all that from the original value of 8 and Booming Voice costs in the range of 3-5 points (assuming it's on a unique character with a limited attack).
Now let's look at Deena Shan and Juno Eclipse, who both have Disruptive. Again, unique "cancels out", but both of these ladies have ranged attacks, so that needs to be taken into account.
Juno's 30 HP, 14 Defense, and +3 attack probably cost about 2-3 of her 8 points. Accurate is 1 or 2, so we're looking at a cost of about 4 for Disruptive. Deena costs more, but has better Defense (lets call Stealth and Accurate a wash), which, again, places Disruptive at around 4 (and remember, this is on shooters).
So if we were to put Disruptive AND Booming Voice on a low-end character, one could argue that they would only cost 8 points. But keep in mind that such a character has both special abilities "always on." Since they're Force powers here, they should be CHEAPER.
Admittedly, Vandar's Hit Points and Defense are better than any of the pieces I'm discussing, but he has no attack at all, and no damage value. Sure, he's got Force points, and Force Alter and Heal should certainly cost something, but I don't think those add up to all that much, especially when you consider the limited on FC and FD compared with Booming Voice and Disruption.
If he's overpriced, I don't think it's by all that much. Remember that he has a number of built-in limitations, no attack, and nothing much to do on his activation. (THe ONLY thing he can really do on his activation is Force Heal, but then only if he hasn't chosen to use FC or FD).
I'd like to keep him affordable for the faction, so if he is overpriced, I'd rather cut stuff off than up the price. I could lower the HP and Defense a bit, maybe drop Alter...
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Post by maverick on Feb 4, 2009 15:44:59 GMT -5
I noticed you used a lot of big words. Nice. Good for you. It was a little long so I didn't read the whole thing. But who cares, cause I gave you an A. - Orange County
Alrighty then. How can I argue against that....proceed
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Post by gwek on Feb 4, 2009 16:11:40 GMT -5
Hey, man, no need to get snippy! Or to quote snippy movies!
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Post by surfrider56 on Feb 4, 2009 19:21:01 GMT -5
I noticed you used a lot of big words. Nice. Good for you. It was a little long so I didn't read the whole thing. But who cares, cause I gave you an A. - Orange County If I never saw the movie "OC" is it still funny? |
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Post by gwek on Feb 4, 2009 19:46:57 GMT -5
If I remember right, it's not bad with brief moments of very funny.
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Post by maverick on Feb 5, 2009 6:44:33 GMT -5
Hey, man, no need to get snippy! Or to quote snippy movies!  It's one of my favorite movies, i watch it quite a bit |
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Post by gwek on Feb 9, 2009 20:53:35 GMT -5
Anyone want to comment... on, y'know, Vandar rather than ORANGE COUNTY?  |
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Post by gwek on Feb 26, 2009 0:55:12 GMT -5
Bumping over some locked threads. Given the Mouse Droid, his concept might need to be revisited.
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