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Post by Roque Saber on Mar 22, 2010 11:35:17 GMT -5
I don't know...paper just looks so sloppy. Ideally, we could try to rally some choppers and get the customs done, but that's a little far from reality.
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Post by gwek on Mar 22, 2010 13:23:28 GMT -5
Although the actual minis look a little sloppy, since we have a mountain of Star Wars art to draw from in most cases, I think the layout for the paper minis page could look pretty slick.
It's just once they're cut out that they'd look kinda lame...
If you can get some "choppers," that would certainly be the better alternative, but 16-18 minis is going to require quite a bit of efford.
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Post by Roque Saber on Mar 22, 2010 23:37:33 GMT -5
Which actual minis look sloppy?
In a 3D game, 2D pieces kind of defeat the purpose... We could just not release anything until everything is done, we wouldn't lose anything except that Hoth and Ganner would already be out, but who cares? People would know that we were working on ours before, so there's no loss.
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Post by gwek on Mar 23, 2010 9:11:46 GMT -5
There are dozens of paper minis available on RPGNow, and most of them look just fine.
My concern with waiting to long is that there will be no audience left.
I don't expect the SWM audience to wither in the immediate wake of the release of MotF, but it's going to get smaller (and more centralized) every day. A lot of it will shift over to SWMGamers, where they're working on the future Virtual Sets.
If we don't time things right, we'll get lost in the lull between the end of WotC's and the release of the first Virtual Set.
You say that "We could just not release anything until everything is done," which right now seems an awful lot like "never." Realistically speaking, when are we going to have 20 figures ready to roll? Given that the process is "dead in the water", I'm pretty skeptical.
Unless we set an end date of some sort (regardless of whether the product at that time includes figures, paper minis, cards, or what have you), I'm starting to get concerned that we've never going to have an official "release" of the NLT.
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Post by bountyhunter9 on Mar 23, 2010 14:13:12 GMT -5
I agree that we should probably set an end date. 3D minis would be nice, but we may have to go with paper minis if we can't make the cut. No pun intended.
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Post by Roque Saber on Mar 23, 2010 16:35:38 GMT -5
There are dozens of paper minis available on RPGNow, and most of them look just fine. My concern with waiting to long is that there will be no audience left. I don't expect the SWM audience to wither in the immediate wake of the release of MotF, but it's going to get smaller (and more centralized) every day. A lot of it will shift over to SWMGamers, where they're working on the future Virtual Sets. If we don't time things right, we'll get lost in the lull between the end of WotC's and the release of the first Virtual Set. You say that "We could just not release anything until everything is done," which right now seems an awful lot like "never." Realistically speaking, when are we going to have 20 figures ready to roll? Given that the process is "dead in the water", I'm pretty skeptical. Unless we set an end date of some sort (regardless of whether the product at that time includes figures, paper minis, cards, or what have you), I'm starting to get concerned that we've never going to have an official "release" of the NLT. What's wrong with SWMGamers? I'd rather collaberate with them with this project then try to keep it separate, they control the future of the game. Period. (and that's a good thing) 20 figures ready to roll will simply take more time, but it can conceivably happen. You imply that the longer we wait, the less people will care about the project when it comes out. In reality, the community will stay the same, it will simply weed out those who don't care (which it has already done to a great extent). The real lovers of the game will stay right where they are, and will still be there when all 20 customs are ready.
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Post by Dendrite on Mar 23, 2010 18:09:38 GMT -5
If we want to use the new Toydarian for Watto's sculpt, we'll have to wait until after MOTF comes out...
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Post by gwek on Mar 23, 2010 20:09:12 GMT -5
What's wrong with SWMGamers? Nothing per se. That point is up for debate, but (either way) I don't think it's necessarily relevant to this discussion. YOU may want to collaborate with SWMGamers, but I don't think THEY want to collaborate with us (especially at this point)! We've been working on TNLT for some time, on our own. Meantime, the folk over at SWMGamers are working on their Virtual Sets. These are two different projects that SWM fans can enjoy, but if you've been over at SWMGamers, they're pretty explicit in that there are only a select number of players involved in the design of the new sets. They would not want our "help" any more than they would want to work on this project in it's final stages. I'm not saying that we can't (or shouldn't) publicize our set on SWMGamers (although it would have to be done carefully, and/or with the proper approval, let it be viewed as "competition" to their virtual sets), but we're essentially on our own with this. But if no one is working on these figures, it doesn't seem particularly likely, does it? I don't necessarily agree with you on all these points, but since we're both speculating, it is, again, not necessarily relevant. More to the point, perhaps, please consider the following: 1) We're very close to finalizing the STATS on all the minis. We have 19/22 finished, with 2 of the others very close. In all likelihood, our stats will be finished before MotF releases. 2) We've got a card designer lined up. Do we have a timetable for how long GF expects the work to take? 3) We've got a few of the minis developed, but as near as I know, work has stopped. While it's possible that all 20 minis will be done eventually, if no one is working on this, it's not going to happen any time in the near future. So: What happens next? What do you think (RS, I'm asking you, but also everyone else) out next step should be? If there are other steps, we should get folk working on the figures right away, but if the only thing to do once the stats and the cards are done is wait for the figures to be done, I for one think we should not wait months, letting our all our work sit collecting dust.
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Post by Dendrite on Mar 23, 2010 20:37:06 GMT -5
My thoughts:
Right now, we have momentum. However, if we lose our focus on the project, we will lose that momentum and the project will be forgotten.
If at all possible, we should at least come up with long-term tasks to keep us from forgetting the project until we're ready to get the sculpts nailed, such as brainstorming ideas for what minis to use (I remember in the first TLT, other WOTC minis were used besides SWM).
If we don't want to take this project over to any site where it could be viewed as "competition," then we could potentially put out a public recruitment call for customizers on the WOTC forums, or privately via private messanging of specificly capable customizers.
Or, at the very least, make sure we all have this database in our "favorites" tab.
This all may be easier said than done, and since we all have personal lives, we can't absolutely obsess over it, but take is as you like it.
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Post by bountyhunter9 on Mar 23, 2010 21:35:12 GMT -5
Considering that this is our set, we won't need the approval of SWMGamers, although it would be nice to release the NLT to the largest audience, and posting it on Gamers would help in this.
We must also remember that SWMGamers does not control the future of the game. Those who play this game after MotF do. If Gamers screws up with the VSets, they'll be ousted from their position as the "dominant" figure in custom stats, because the general populace of SWM players won't want them there anymore. While I'm not saying that this will happen, or that I want it to happen, it is a possibility. Also, we must remember that they have no true authority over us or any other group of customizers.
That said, we should try and get the NLT done ASAP. While I'm not saying we rush it, the sooner we get it done, the better.
Another option would be to build a database set. With the end of the game imminent, custom stats will become more and more important, and we are a step ahead of most other custom group. I know there are numerous "projects" on these boards, such as the restoration of some of the custom stats in the database. These projects seem to freeze up, but we could get some of them going again. We could release the set while we finish up with the NLT, or after work is done. Either way, it would keep the momentum over here, and as long as there is momentum here, we'll finish the NLT. That would allow us to get the 20 figs out, and it could draw more attention to these boards, which would not be a bad thing.
For the db set, we could either restore the stats of some of the best customs already in our database (if any changes are needed), or we could make completely new sets of stats (or a combination of both). Either way, it adds on a lot of work for us, but it would keep our attention here and we could get the NLT done with all of the step-by-step instructions on creating the customs done.
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Post by Roque Saber on Mar 23, 2010 23:35:49 GMT -5
Actually they do, at least in the competitive environment (I don't know how many of you play competitively though). Dean and Bill are the ones in charge of official tourney play following Wizards, the customs that they approve of will become legal for official tourneys. So, if we want these stats to not only have more publicity, but also possibly become tourney legal, (how slick would that be!) we should try to stay on friendly terms with them. Don't view them as "competition" but as "fellow players who are in a place of authority".
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Post by gwek on Mar 24, 2010 12:31:39 GMT -5
Frankly, since they haven't produced anything yet, they are a non-issue for this project.
I think to continue to look at them as "above" us is a poor, poor idea. This is OUR project. I will not be considered canon by SWMGamers and their V-Sets any more than the original TLT was consider canon by WotC.
As I've said, we're on our own, and should behave as such.
In terms of marketing the project, reaching out to them is not a bad idea, but only once we're ready and finalized.
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Post by bountyhunter9 on Mar 24, 2010 14:45:27 GMT -5
Actually they do, at least in the competitive environment (I don't know how many of you play competitively though). Dean and Bill are the ones in charge of official tourney play following Wizards, the customs that they approve of will become legal for official tourneys. So, if we want these stats to not only have more publicity, but also possibly become tourney legal, (how slick would that be!) we should try to stay on friendly terms with them. Don't view them as "competition" but as "fellow players who are in a place of authority". The competitive aspect is only a part of the game, I know a lot of players who don't go to tournaments because they want to have fun with the game rather than play with and against the same squads over and over again. But that is important. My point was that SWMGamers, on their own, does not control the entire future of the game and all its aspects. The players do. But, it would be better to release the NLT with their support rather than against it. As long as that can be obtained. Anyways, what's the progress with the minis? I don't remember a list of what's done and not done being posted somewhere. Which minis are done and which do we still need to do?
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Post by Roque Saber on Mar 24, 2010 14:47:32 GMT -5
We need to finish Joruus, Tholme, and Morne.
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Post by surfrider56 on Mar 24, 2010 23:14:48 GMT -5
Don't view them as "competition" but as "fellow players who are in a place of authority". I don't remember anybody on this board dying and the rest of us being elected to rule the SW Customs Universe. My playing experience pales in comparison to most on the Gamers or Boo boards; I just enjoy making customs, and find myself playing less and less over the years for various reasons. Any work we do should be playable, inventive, realistic in the SW's EU, and fun. I say the more opinions, the better. Maybe if we present "usable" pieces we'll get more people in here
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