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Post by Darth Chaos on Jan 16, 2010 19:37:56 GMT -5
Ko Sai is the Kaminoan responsible for the cloning process that created the Grand Army of the Republic. She stands out in the Karen Traviss novels, and since we love Karen Traviss, we made Ko Sai. We borrowed the idea from darthraven. Here's the original. We really liked the idea of removing the "Unique" restriction, but wanted a more accessible mini for the purposes of gameplay - ours is the Kaminoan Ascetic. So, thanks to darthraven, and if you don't like the Special Ability, send all complaints to him. As a side note, this is our first card with the new red logo! Anyway, let me know if it looks good or if it needs some tweaking. You can find our custom cards here: DARK SIDE's Custom Minis ThreadSome cards have been updated recently after play testing, so check it out. DC
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Post by darthgrievous on Jan 17, 2010 10:11:24 GMT -5
Love it DC
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Post by Darth Chaos on Jan 18, 2010 12:31:15 GMT -5
I'm thinking of changing the ability to read:
Advanced Cloning (One living character in your squad may ignore Unique for the purpose of squad building)
Then I may lower her cost to 30-35.
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Post by bountyhunter9 on Jan 18, 2010 16:04:07 GMT -5
Interesting ability. I think your revised version is a lot better in terms of game balance. It does bring up a few problems, however, most notably in the Republic (ie Jar Jar, Captain Rex, AniSTAP). I think with a cost over 30 and the ability to do almost nothing else balances it out a bit. Though four or five Captain Rexes would be VERY scary.
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Post by Darth Chaos on Jan 18, 2010 16:52:13 GMT -5
Interesting ability. I think your revised version is a lot better in terms of game balance. It does bring up a few problems, however, most notably in the Republic (ie Jar Jar, Captain Rex, AniSTAP). I think with a cost over 30 and the ability to do almost nothing else balances it out a bit. Though four or five Captain Rexes would be VERY scary. True. Maybe I should write in a limit of 1 or 2 clones? Not quite sure how to word that...
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Post by Darth Chaos on Jan 21, 2010 1:16:09 GMT -5
What do you think of this?
Advanced Cloning (Whenever a Unique living ally within 6 squares of this character would be defeated, with a save of 16, it instead immediately returns to play with full Hit Points)
Would you pay 35 points for that?
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Post by bountyhunter9 on Jan 21, 2010 12:23:08 GMT -5
Hmm. It's another interesting idea. The range 6 limitation really limits how good it can be, because the character (I'm assuming) would retain its very low base stats. I can't think of a way to make the original version you posted both playable and balanced, so unless we can come up with a good idea later I think this version could work.
That said, I think we should up the character's defensive abilities, because it'll probably be the enemy's number one target. Did the character have any combat abilities? I think you should increase the HP, to about 50-70, and the defense to at least 15, maybe add Evade, so she doesn't die in one attack.
Yet another option would be to make her specific to the Clone Trooper. Clone Troopers (the normal, basic Clone Trooper) have been completely repalced in today's game because of the AT-TE Driver and 501st Clone Trooper. I think that if you based this character around improving them, you could have a pretty good piece for the Republic (unless of course you want to keep her Fringe). Here are some possibilities (taking some from my Prime Minister Lama Su custom):
Ko Sai, Clone Master
Cost: 25? HP: 30 Def: 14 Atk: +0 Dmg: 0
Special Abilities: Unique Enhanced Genetics (Allies named Clone Trooper gain Speed 8 and +4 defense [or whatever]) Rapport (Characters named Clone Trooper cost 1 less when included in a squad with this character)
Commander Effect: [optional] Followers with Order 66 gain X.
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Post by Darth Chaos on Jan 22, 2010 1:52:58 GMT -5
What if we did this for 40 points:
Special Ability:
Advanced Cloning (One living character in your squad may ignore Unique for the purpose of squad building)
Commander Effect:
Whenever a Unique living ally within 6 squares of this character would be defeated, with a save of 16, it instead immediately returns to play with full Hit Points
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Post by bountyhunter9 on Jan 22, 2010 14:18:53 GMT -5
That looks pretty good for 40 points. Still scary, but it's a lot of points to pay for a non-combat character.
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Post by Darth Chaos on Jan 23, 2010 1:39:40 GMT -5
The point cost is definitely the kicker. Someone suggested a fairly elegant solution, based on the Han Solo in Carbonite mini. Of course, now I have to figure out how to word it so someone can't pick a lower point version of a Unique for Ko Sai's cost. Suggestions? We'd considered making Advanced Cloning a CE, like the Leia it's based on, but with mouse droids and MA's Booming Voice, I'm afraid it'd extend the ability too far, though that might be preferable. This version dovetails nicely with the Cloning SA we created for the Spaarti Cloning Cylinder. Let me know what you think!
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Post by bountyhunter9 on Jan 23, 2010 9:35:38 GMT -5
Good idea to make it like Han in Carbonite. That could be tricky to do, because like you said there are some very cheap Uniques (ie Bib Fortuna, who costs 8 points) that would make this character very cheap.
To fix this, you could word it so you have to choose a character who costs X or more (probably 20 to 30) for Clone Master. Not exactly accurate, but it would fix both the problem of her costing very little and having multiple Jar Jar Binks running around.
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Post by Darth Chaos on Jan 23, 2010 13:38:51 GMT -5
Yeah, it's trickier than I thought!
On another board someone suggested we could re-word the ability to something like "costs 1/2 the chosen character or 15 points, whichever is higher."
I like your idea, too, but I'm reticent to limit the unique choices.
My initial concern was someone might play a 47 point Vader, use that for Ko Sai's cost, then put a 75 point Vader on the squad. I'd like to specify that the higher value is the one to be used.
So how do I avoid both loopholes?!
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Post by bountyhunter9 on Jan 23, 2010 15:23:17 GMT -5
That's a good idea too. Although I don't think specifying that the higher costing mini is used is imperative (you would save more points leaving SS Vader out of it and just using it on Vader JH), you could word it like this if you want this included:
...this character's cost X is 1/2 the cost of the highest costing variant of the character chosen for this ability or 15 points, whichever is higher.
It's still really, really wordy, but I can't think of any other way to word it.
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Post by Darth Chaos on Jan 23, 2010 17:07:34 GMT -5
I guess trying to force them to use the highest costing version sort of undercuts the Special Ability too much. Might as well make it as useful as possible.
So you like the idea of 15 points as the minimum?
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Post by bountyhunter9 on Jan 23, 2010 22:34:01 GMT -5
Fifteen or twenty would work fine, depending on whether you want it to be an even number or not. Personally, I think 20 would be closer to where the character should cost, but 15 works too.
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