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Post by bountyhunter9 on Jan 23, 2010 9:29:58 GMT -5
I agree with you, RS, we should control how many custom abilities are made, especially in this set, but this is one that WotC should have made a long time ago.
That said, we don't have to stick to the combining fire aspect of BM. We could consider that part to belong to WotC's ability, while we could make it focus on a different aspect of the game, if we wanted to. After reading up on BM on the Wook, here are some possibilities:
-Making combining fire a lot more useful -Boosting the save rolls of followers and decreasing those of the enemy -Boosting attack or defense of followers and decreasing those of the enemy -Giving allies an ability like Cunning Attack, Adv. Attack, Opportunist, or Deceptive (probably Cunning or Adv.)
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Post by Roque Saber on Jan 24, 2010 2:13:54 GMT -5
Force 3, replaces attacks: For the rest of the skirmish, this character gains the following commander effect: Allies who combine fire grant an additional +4 Attack, and enemy characters cannot combine fire. Allies gain Advantageous Attack (+10 Damage against an enemy who has not activated this round ).
Interesting take. Fits right with what BH9 said too... I think the key is the "what else" it gives (in this instance, Adv. Attack). It could be that, or maybe something else. BM seemed to be very focued on coordination, so maybe give allies Intuition or something? (that might be too powerful, maybe just move 3 squares or something)
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Post by bountyhunter9 on Jan 24, 2010 9:07:28 GMT -5
I agree, this looks pretty good. Keeping combining fire useful, but still bringing a decent CE.
Intuition is intriguing, but too powerful. To show the coordination, maybe word it like this:
Allies may move 2 extra squares at the end of their turn.
Or perhaps something else to do with movement.
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Post by Roque Saber on Jan 24, 2010 21:37:05 GMT -5
2 squares at the end of the turn could work. Opinions?
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Post by Dendrite on Jan 25, 2010 21:52:08 GMT -5
Sounds okay
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Post by gwek on Jan 25, 2010 22:54:42 GMT -5
The Imperials already have a commander who gives an additional +4 on combined fire (as well as one who changes +4 to +6). Further, I'd be very wary of giving Advantageous Attack to all allies in any faction, but especially in a faction that already has two different ways to get widespread Opportunist.
Further, the Imps have some of the cheapest shooters with access to a wide variety of boosts. They are a faction who can really, really take advantage of combined fire options because of this.
If he winds up granting all this PLUS movement, he should be pretty expensive to reflect that.
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Post by Roque Saber on Jan 26, 2010 0:28:15 GMT -5
I think there was some miscomm. The movement bonus is instead of Adv. Attack. It prevents, as your said, potential abuse.
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Post by gwek on Jan 26, 2010 9:49:19 GMT -5
Fair enough... but please note the other stuff I mentioned.
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Post by Roque Saber on Jan 26, 2010 12:22:33 GMT -5
Yes they are the best faction to combine fire with, but that hasn't made players want to use it any more. Have you ever seen someone run Jerjerrod with Baron Fel for a combining fire squad?
Also, if I'm not mistaken, this version of GBM would not stack with Jerjerrod since they are worded identically, so it would be no more abusive (for the attack bonus) than Jerry is. The movement bonus is added incentive, but not game breaking.
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Post by gwek on Jan 26, 2010 15:16:50 GMT -5
Also, if I'm not mistaken, this version of GBM would not stack with Jerjerrod since they are worded identically, so it would be no more abusive (for the attack bonus) than Jerry is. Shouldn't we try to avoid complete replication? For the record, I wasn't necessarily noting that a JB Jerjerrod combo would be abusive, but would render Jerjerrod's CE moot (although when considering any other aspect of combined fire, we should look at all combined fire buffs for the faction).
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Post by bountyhunter9 on Jan 26, 2010 18:32:02 GMT -5
By the wording of both GBM and Jerry's CE, wouldn't they stack? With the word "additional" thrown in, it makes it seem like both effects would stack, even though they provide the same effect (something like Extra Attack). I can't remember if there was any ruling on this. Does Control Minds stack with Jerry's CE? There should have been something put out regarding that, but I can't remember....
Maybe, instead of an attack boost, word it (going really out on a limb here) so that the first part of GBM (combined fire bonus) is combined with the second part of GBM (movement). So something like this:
Force 3, replaces attacks: for the rest of the skirmish, this character gains the following commander effect: Allies who combine fire[grant +X attack?]can immediately move up to 2 squares.
Thoughts? With the more conventional version, we could drop the combine fire aspect of it completely and go for something (better) that shows the coordination aspects of Battle Meditation.
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Post by gwek on Jan 27, 2010 1:15:13 GMT -5
The same ability or generic numeric bonus can't stack with itself.
As for granting movement... I don't remember JC's battle meditation being particularly mobile. Just made people act is concert (although I have no idea how to better reflect that).
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Post by Darth Chaos on Jan 27, 2010 17:57:28 GMT -5
Have him grant:
Advantageous Attack (+10 Damage against an enemy who has not activated this round)
Furious Assault (Replaces turn: Can move up to 12 squares, then attack each legal target once)
Micro-Vision (+4 Attack against targets within 6 squares)
Squad Assault (+4 Attack while 3 allies with the same name as this character are within 6 squares) Or maybe have him be able to choose a charater to grant: Intuition (Once per round, after initiative is determined, this character can immediately move up to its speed before any other character activates)
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Post by bountyhunter9 on Jan 27, 2010 19:46:56 GMT -5
Have him grant: Advantageous Attack (+10 Damage against an enemy who has not activated this round) Furious Assault (Replaces turn: Can move up to 12 squares, then attack each legal target once) Micro-Vision (+4 Attack against targets within 6 squares) Squad Assault (+4 Attack while 3 allies with the same name as this character are within 6 squares) Or maybe have him be able to choose a charater to grant: Intuition (Once per round, after initiative is determined, this character can immediately move up to its speed before any other character activates) Good ideas. Personally, of these, I like Squad Assault and Intuition for an ally the best. I'm not sure about Advantageous Attack, because the Empire already has easy access to easy Adv. Attack through Lord Vader, and mass producing Furious Assault would be fearsome, from Stormies to Boba BH. Micro-Vision is a possibility, though it's somewhat less interesting than the other possibilities. Some other options would be: Gregarious (+4 attack if an ally is within 6 squares) A GOWK-like CE (Each follower gets +X attack and +X defense as long as it has an ally within 6 squares)
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Post by gwek on Jan 28, 2010 11:22:56 GMT -5
I like a GOWK-style CE (as long as it's not too high a number) or a Squad ability best.
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