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Post by bountyhunter9 on Jan 12, 2010 16:01:45 GMT -5
Good observations, but one question. How often do you actually combine fire? Even with stormy swarms, it's usually the better option to simply use extra attacks and hope for a lucky roll than waste an activation and movement. Also remember that they also need LOS to the enemy to combine fire so they're sitting ducks for any shooters who might happen to want them dead. I combine fire whenever I think of it, and if it would be beneficial. Of course, it's not the first thing on my mind, so it can be forgotten. As you said, it really isn't useful unless you've built a trooper squad or have an extra low-cost shooter that qualifies. So you're right, it wouldn't be all that useful. I'm not sure if this was your intention for the CE, as how I read it one would think that all shooters can combine fire an unlimited amount of times, and still activate. I think wording the CE like this would create something interesting: Allies who combine fire grant +10 damage on the attack. Allies who combine fire are not considered activated, but can still only combine fire on one attack per round. Thoughts? EDIT: The CE would probably sound better like this: Allies who combine fire grant +10 damage on the attack and are not considered activated, but can still only combine fire on one attack per round.
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Post by Roque Saber on Jan 13, 2010 0:37:41 GMT -5
Ah, I see the concern. Your version does make it much more balanced.
HP: 100-130 DEF: 20 ATT: 0 DA: 0
-Unique -Impulsive Savagery? -Dominate? -Self-Destruct 40
Force 2 Renewal 2 -Battle Meditation -Force Lightning 4 -Warp Mind (Replaces Turn; Force 2; one adjacent ally gains Momentum for the rest of the skirmish. When this character is defeated, that character gains Savage) ? -Force repulse 2 ?
CE: Followers who combine fire grant an additional +10 damage and are not considered activated, but can still only combine fire once per round.
So here's what we've got (slightly reworded the CE and make it affect followers). Pretty much the only things that are essential at this points are Force Lightning and Battle Meditation (with his CE). What do we think about all the other abilities?
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Post by gwek on Jan 13, 2010 11:52:43 GMT -5
Coming back fresh...
Not a big fan of Impulsive Savagery.
Not a fan of Warp Mind. Too wonky.
I think the suggested CE messes with the core idea of activations a bit too much (and would be a pain to keep track of in play), although I like the idea of adding to combined fire. Why not just "Non-Unique allies gain Spotter+10"? I don't think there are any Imp pieces with Spotter, currently.
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Post by Roque Saber on Jan 13, 2010 12:51:39 GMT -5
Correct, no Imp pieces with Spotter (they can get it via Fringe though). Spotter, though, is a little hard to use due it it's range 6 limitation. What if it was just the +10 to damage but drop the whole activation part.
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Post by bountyhunter9 on Jan 13, 2010 17:22:54 GMT -5
Combining fire is still pretty useless unless we include the latter clause where they aren't activated. As RS said, it's nearly impossible to actually "set up" a combined fire attack, unless you've got 30 Stormies and will sacrifice some of them to actually combine fire. I could go either way with the CE, though, I'm fine it is loses the no-activation thing, though it still won't be that useful.
I agree with Gwek on Impulsive Savagery, but could go either way on Warp Mind.
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Post by Darth Chaos on Jan 18, 2010 14:24:45 GMT -5
How about something like:
Greater Battle Meditation (Force 4) - Replaces turn. This character gains this additional CE for the rest of the round: All allies who combine fire gain an additional +4 ATK bonus and gain +4 DEF for the rest of the round, and enemies cannot combine fire.
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Post by bountyhunter9 on Jan 18, 2010 15:38:17 GMT -5
Interesting. Definitely better than WotC's pathetic Battle Meditation. I think it would be better if we make a new ability here, considering that WotC's current ability is, well, useless.
Thoughts?
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Post by Roque Saber on Jan 19, 2010 19:25:01 GMT -5
I would try to make Wizard's BM useful before making a new ability. We just have to figure out how to make it useful.
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Post by Dendrite on Jan 19, 2010 19:33:20 GMT -5
Maybe "Characters who combine fire with other allies may immediately move 6 squares at the end of the attack"
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Post by Roque Saber on Jan 20, 2010 0:14:57 GMT -5
6 might be overkill, but we could play off of Major Veers' CE and say:
Followers (allies) who combine fire grant an additional +10 damage. Followers (allies) who combine fire may immediately move 2 squares at the end of the attack.
So they give an extra punch and can jump out of the way afterwards. Thoughts?
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Post by bountyhunter9 on Jan 20, 2010 15:11:21 GMT -5
Well, if we were to make a new ability, this would be the best one to do. WotC's BM is so pathetically useless that there is nearly no situation in which it would be beneficial to the degree that Battle Meditation is in SW.
Although it would be best if we could stick to WotC's guidelines as much as possible, they screwed up Battle Meditation, so we should (at least to some degree) correct this mistake. Also, there is no difference between making a new ability (which acutally isn't entirely new) and making a new CE. We're still breaking WotC's guidelines, unless we use an already existing CE.
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Post by Roque Saber on Jan 21, 2010 20:24:41 GMT -5
Not really. SA's are set-in-stone, in the glossary, and have objective definitions. CE's come in every color of the rainbow and have no real guidelines. Well then our current challenge is to make it useful. See my above post.
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Post by bountyhunter9 on Jan 22, 2010 14:14:33 GMT -5
Just because SAs are in the glossary doesn't mean they are set in stone, and new ones can't be made. I'm not sure I see your point of view here. Abilities come in every colour of the rainbow as much as CEs do. WotC makes new abilities with every set, so we shouldn't limit ourselves to making only a few in the whole set. It makes no sense to immediately dismiss a custom ability, just because they are in a glossary, or whatever.
Well, if you have a way of making BM more useful, I'd like to see it. As the ability itself is completely useless, the easiest solution is to create a new variation, without making an over-the-top (and new) CE. It's not even a new ability, just a variation of an existing one. Like the Mandalorian Coordinator we had for Cassus Fett, or the Military Reserves on Saul Karath. I think the Greater Battle Meditation that DC posted is the perfect solution.
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Post by Roque Saber on Jan 22, 2010 17:03:47 GMT -5
I see your point. I'm just trying to keep people from going overboard on custom abilities, which is what happened to the rest of the database. Too many new SA's can easily create chaos.
As for GBM, the +4 defense part doesn't really make sense. Does it mean on the turn that Joruus uses it, or the turn that the ally combined fire?
If we're going to make a GBM, we should analyze how it works in universe and try to represent that while roughly sticking to the original ability.
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Post by Darth Chaos on Jan 22, 2010 21:34:45 GMT -5
Greater Battle Meditation
Force 3, replaces attacks: For the rest of the skirmish, this character gains the following commander effect: Allies who combine fire grant an additional +4 Attack, and enemy characters cannot combine fire. Allies gain Advantageous Attack (+10 Damage against an enemy who has not activated this round ).
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