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Post by xpraider on Apr 30, 2010 13:34:42 GMT -5
I hate to go on a bit of a rant here. But I think I may end up doing just that.
Personally I have no interest in working with SWMGamers on their VSet, or submitting our work for their Vsets.
Right now without LFL backing, there is no 'official' SWM, except what was released until MoTF. Everything else is fan based and amateur. SWM may have one of the biggest and more influential bases of players, but in all honesty whatever comes out of there is going to be for the SWM that Bill, Boris, and Dean want to play.
To be honest, the same is true for whatever anyone else will come up with too, including us. But personally, I don't like the way that I've seen them leaning with the game. A lot of the floor changes (especially the more recent ones) were changes that they wanted to see made to the game in order to encourage a faster pace play that in the end will cater more towards their play style.
I tend to like it when games get really intense and some of my favorite games have been against other really good players that just because of careful movements and thinking caused our games to go to time. I don't like being penalized for that and I am not interested in playing in a version of the game where that and who knows what other changes will continue to happen.
If they happen to like the figures we make and want to include them that' fine, but I absolutely do not want them to have a say in how our figures end up.
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Post by Roque Saber on Apr 30, 2010 14:40:22 GMT -5
Already done.
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Wow xpraider, that's quite the flaming post right there. From your post, it seems that you think that SWM Gamers is turning into the "Empire" of SWM.
Actually, yes there is, for players at least. The team at Gamers is in charge of all organized play (Regionals, GenCon, CV, etc). So unless you want to play at home forever, you'll be affected by the changes made.
Some would argue that some of WotC's work is amateur, but I won't go there. And of course it's fan based, unless someone wanted to start a new company, it would be "fan-based". Fan based is actually, in the opinion of many, better than another company picking it up b/c we are the ones who know how the game works and what it needs.
Woah! Hold on for a second. First, "Bill, Boris, and Dean" are not the only people over there. In fact, they are in the minority of people who want to help keep the game going. Secondly, if those guys are the ones who are constantly winning tournies with what WotC has put out, why would they need to make stuff for themselves? Thirdly, if you take a look at the thread for ideas, none of those three have posted any of their own suggestions. They are seeing what the community as a whole (at least, those who want to contribute) wants to see in a VSet.
These are the guys who have led the SWM community through many, many tough and stressful situations. They know what they're doing. No offense intended, but do you have any idea what you're saying? Do you have any examples to back up your accusations? Think twice before you blast people like them a second time.
Please cite. Regardless, these are some of the top SWM players. If they are going so low as to change the game pace for their own ends, no one would be following their leadership. Once again, please cite. I would like to know where you're getting this info from.
Humility is a virtue. If you "absolutely do not want them to have a say in how our figures end up" to the point where you won't let your good work be made better, that not only might rob the SWM community of some wonderful work, but it also speaks something of your character.
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I'm sorry to have to rant back at you, but this was a very loaded post. I know this topic can get a bit touchy, but I strongly believe that we should all just lower our mental defenses, so to speak, and remember that our work is worthless if no one else gets to use it.
So, on that note, let's get a plan together in case we have to finish this on our own. We need customs finished, cards made, and what else?
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Post by xpraider on Apr 30, 2010 19:35:16 GMT -5
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Post by gwek on Apr 30, 2010 22:05:28 GMT -5
Personally, I agree with about 99% of what xpraider has said. On the other hand, I agree with RS on at least one pivotal point: our stuff means nothing if no one sees it and appreciates it. On the third hand... Where I perhaps most strongly agree with xp is that this is OUR project. If the SWM folk want to help us in any way or want to offer some suggestions and ideas, that's great... but I think I speak for many of us when I say that I didn't work on this project for months so that we can submit it for the approval of a group of people who were not interested enough in the project to be part of it in the first place. Since RS has already kindly contacted the SWM folk on our behalf, I recommend we see what they have to say. If they're interested in helping us, I happily support that plan. On the other hand, if they would look to make our project and work subordinate to theirs, I say nay. Regardless, as has been suggested, we must move ahead on our own. That means we need to solicit card makers and figure modders... and, frankly, I don't care what site they come from!
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Post by surfrider56 on May 1, 2010 0:38:43 GMT -5
On a lighter note, has anybody seen the latest cards on any board as templates we can use? I think Laubi1 posts from the WOTC are the newest? ... could be wrong. Are the Descriptions still in FB Agency? What font is being used on the Titles? Until Galak starts doing something, I'd be willing to throw something together that can modified/beautified ... as in example ...
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Post by gwek on May 1, 2010 0:54:23 GMT -5
Nice job, Surf! I actually just set GF our finalized stats (for 19/22 pieces), so if you want to get in touch with him, maybe you guys can work together? Where did you get that pic of Gryph from? I can find the art I used on my old card. GF said that if we had art, we should give it to him. I had previously found about a half dozen or so and posted them in this thread: community.wizards.com/go/thread/view/75862/21890297/The_New_Lost_Twenty_Cutting_Crew!?pg=11 If anyone has ideas, post them here, and we can collect them and send them to GF.
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Post by surfrider56 on May 1, 2010 1:25:37 GMT -5
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Post by Roque Saber on May 1, 2010 11:21:29 GMT -5
Personally, I agree with about 99% of what xpraider has said. On the other hand, I agree with RS on at least one pivotal point: our stuff means nothing if no one sees it and appreciates it. On the third hand... Where I perhaps most strongly agree with xp is that this is OUR project. If the SWM folk want to help us in any way or want to offer some suggestions and ideas, that's great... but I think I speak for many of us when I say that I didn't work on this project for months so that we can submit it for the approval of a group of people who were not interested enough in the project to be part of it in the first place. Since RS has already kindly contacted the SWM folk on our behalf, I recommend we see what they have to say. If they're interested in helping us, I happily support that plan. On the other hand, if they would look to make our project and work subordinate to theirs, I say nay. Regardless, as has been suggested, we must move ahead on our own. That means we need to solicit card makers and figure modders... and, frankly, I don't care what site they come from! Lol gwek. Well, tbh, it doesn't really look like anyone is actually looking through all the suggested stats over at Gamers, frankly because most of it is plain worthless. I'm not sure how fast they're going to try and get that project moving, so we might have to wait a little bit. Surfrider - great start! However, if we've sent our stuff off to Galak, we probably just need to wait for him to finish up, correct? (save ourselves some time and energy)
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Post by Dendrite on May 1, 2010 14:51:20 GMT -5
It all looks great!
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Post by surfrider56 on May 1, 2010 15:13:32 GMT -5
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Post by gwek on May 1, 2010 20:31:21 GMT -5
Very cool to see. Unfortunately, I think the pictures are going to get harder to come by.
Can we just use the existing WotC pic for Ganner? (If so, might want to consider going with the WotC one for Lord Hoth, too).
Whether GF does cards, or Surf does them, or we do a mixed bag, it seems like we've got the cards well in hand.
So do we want to release when we have the cards ready, or do we want to wait for custom minis, too? (If so, how long will the minis take?)
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Post by Roque Saber on May 1, 2010 22:29:33 GMT -5
I think we can release when the cards are done. The stats are the most important part of the mix, actual customs could be added later.
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Post by surfrider56 on May 2, 2010 2:54:28 GMT -5
Very cool to see. Unfortunately, I think the pictures are going to get harder to come by. Oh Ye of Little Faith .... Toke the liberty of using 42 for cost; obviosly anything can be changed Now ... my one disappointment tonight ... I don't think anybody checked either; just when I though I was finished with Joruus ... Obviously the CE doesn't fit, and I've been playing with it for awhile; if Galek can fix it, great. If not, we need to reword/remove something .......
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Post by bountyhunter9 on May 2, 2010 9:56:14 GMT -5
Good work on the cards, surf. They look good.
On Joruus, the best thing to drop would probably be Force Corruption 1. I can't see any way to fix it without dropping something, and Corruption is, IMO, the least important ability he has. It also takes up the most text.
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Post by xpraider on May 2, 2010 10:17:17 GMT -5
Quick thought.
Since Wizards already came out with both Hoth and Ganner, both of which have already been released, do we want to change their titles to differentiate them from the Wizards figures? i.e. Lord Hoth, Jedi General, Jedi Lord Hoth, or Ganner Rhysode, Jedi knight.
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