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Post by bountyhunter9 on Jun 24, 2010 0:11:01 GMT -5
Does anyone have any further thoughts on Chief Chirpa, or is he ready to be re-finalized?
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Post by gwek on Jun 25, 2010 0:07:26 GMT -5
Can we see what we're thinking of approving? I think that maybe we did change the stats from the original version?
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Post by bountyhunter9 on Jun 25, 2010 11:41:33 GMT -5
My bad, we aren't ready to finalize yet. This is what we had:
I think we (well just you and I, Gwek) talked about dropping Flurry, and you mentioned changing (or adding) a Synergy boost for Ewoks.
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Post by surfrider56 on Jun 25, 2010 18:11:02 GMT -5
I kinda like Flurry ... seems in character to me. What type of Synergy were we thinking & with what effect? Leia, Rebel?
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Post by bountyhunter9 on Jun 25, 2010 20:11:18 GMT -5
I think Gwek suggested that we use Synergy for Ewoks (allied Ewoks gain Synergy for Ewoks was what it was, I think).
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Post by gwek on Jun 25, 2010 22:38:59 GMT -5
I don't necessarily mind Flurry, but since Chirpa doesn't have it himself, it should be described in the CE, which could lead to a little more text than intended.
As for Synergy, I have a bit of a concern with pieces that cost 2 points being able to provide +4 EACH via Swarm +4. I was thinking something similar to the Antarian Rangers:
Synergy (+4 Attack and +4 Defense while an allied Ewok is within 6 squares)
This way, having Ewoks nearby provides a nice bump to both stats, and you can STILL drive your Attack higher with Swarm +1 (although it won't go up as quickly).
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Post by bountyhunter9 on Jun 26, 2010 8:58:43 GMT -5
I'm not sure I like the Synergy aspect. While it does decrease their potential attack, it doesn't really fit with what the Ewoks do. They don't really synergize and work well when one other Ewok is near by. They work and synergize while in a horde of Ewoks.
While the attack of the Ewoks may get a bit high when they cost 2 points and have Swarm +4, I don't think it's any more problematic than the Synergy. With GOWK, the 2 point Ewoks would effectively have +8/+8 as long as an Ewok is within 6 squares. That gives them a 20 def (24 in cover) and a +9 attack, not including any Swarm bonuses.
Thinking about this piece again, I think we may have looked to boost the Ewoks too much. A 2 point character that can actually attack is unheard of in this game. Maybe, instead of either Synergy or Swarm +4, we could give them Swarm +2? It doubles their current Swarm bonus, but it won't push their attack to obscene levels.
As for Flurry, it doesn't really matter to me either way. I like it on the Ewoks, as it does seem fitting (maybe it's because "Flurry" is so close to "Furry"), but I'm not particularly attached to it.
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Post by Dendrite on Jun 26, 2010 10:40:22 GMT -5
I like Flurry. I do think Swarm +2 could work also
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Post by bountyhunter9 on Jun 28, 2010 17:13:19 GMT -5
Anyone have any more thoughts, either way, on Flurry Attack, the Swarm +2 proposed by myself, and the Synergy proposed by Gwek?
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Post by gwek on Jun 28, 2010 23:45:55 GMT -5
I believe what we're looking at goes something like this: Chief ChirpaFaction: Fringe Cost: 18 Hit Points: 40 Defense: 16 Attack: 4 Damage: 10 Unique, Ewok. Melee AttackPathfinder (Allies are not slowed by difficult terrain within 6 squares of this character) Rapport (Ewoks cost 1 less when in the same squad as this character) Stealth (If this character has cover, he does not count as the nearest enemy for an attacker farther than 6 squares when choosing targets) Commander Effect:Allied Ewoks gain Swarm +2 (+2 Attack against a target for each allied Ewok adjacent to that target) and Flurry Attack (Whenever this character scores a critical hit, he can make 1 immediate extra attack). I like it, but have a few more thoughts. First, the price. At 18, I think he may be overpriced. Ignoring Rapport and the commander effect for a moment, he's actually very similar to the Rebel Pathfinder (who costs 11), but is inferior in almost every respect (lower stats, fewer special abilities, etc). The RP lacks both Melee Attack and Unique, each if which is usually worth a price reduction of somewhere between 2 and 5 points. I'd guess that, CE and Rapport aside, he's probably worth about 5-6 points comparatively. Are those abilities--which are, admittedly impressive, but only impact a small number of pieces--worth 12+ points? I'm not so sure. While I like the commander effect, I don't love that it contains two different special abilities that need to be spelled out. I think perhaps Chirpa himself should also have Swarm, and perhaps Flurry could just be described rather than the actual special ability handed out? Maybe something like this: Chief ChirpaFaction: Fringe Cost: Hit Points: 40 Defense: 16 Attack: 4 Damage: 10 Unique, Ewok. Melee AttackPathfinder (Allies are not slowed by difficult terrain within 6 squares of this character) Rapport (Ewoks cost 1 less when in the same squad as this character) Stealth (If this character has cover, he does not count as the nearest enemy for an attacker farther than 6 squares when choosing targets) Swarm +2 (+2 Attack against a target for each allied Ewok adjacent to that target) Commander Effect:Allied Ewoks gain Swarm +2. Each allied Ewok that scores a critical hit can make 1 immediate extra attack.
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Post by bountyhunter9 on Jun 29, 2010 13:31:33 GMT -5
Chief ChirpaFaction: Fringe Cost: Hit Points: 40 Defense: 16 Attack: 4 Damage: 10 Unique, Ewok. Melee AttackPathfinder (Allies are not slowed by difficult terrain within 6 squares of this character) Rapport (Ewoks cost 1 less when in the same squad as this character) Stealth (If this character has cover, he does not count as the nearest enemy for an attacker farther than 6 squares when choosing targets) Swarm +2 (+2 Attack against a target for each allied Ewok adjacent to that target) Commander Effect:Allied Ewoks gain Swarm +2. Eached allied Ewok that scores a critical hit can make 1 immediate extra attack. Good ideas, and I agree on the cost. With the reduced Swarm bonus, his price should go down. Giving Chirpa Swarm +2 as well means that the cost could probably be around 14-16.
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Post by Jm419 on Jul 12, 2010 21:42:39 GMT -5
The HP is actually fairly high. Perhaps too high for an Ewok, but I suppose they could take three shots (at 10 Damage) and still survive. Other than that (I really like Swarm +2), this piece is fine by me.
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Post by surfrider56 on Jul 12, 2010 23:51:39 GMT -5
The HP is actually fairly high. Perhaps too high for an Ewok, but I suppose they could take three shots (at 10 Damage) and still survive. Other than that (I really like Swarm +2), this piece is fine by me. No Flurry? No higher than 16 than, maybe even 15..... Is he worth 2-3 more than Logray? Yea ... twice Wickets 8 ... maybe. Perhaps 15 would be best.
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Post by gwek on Jul 13, 2010 11:44:23 GMT -5
I took Flurry out (but replaced it with a commander effect that replicates the ability) to save a little "ink" on the card, and because people generally seemed to feel that Chirpa himself didn't need it.
When pricing, don't forget that he brings 2 very big things to the table:
1) He can provide the cheapest pieces available in the game that are subject to commander effects
2) He is the only way for most factions go get access to Pathfinder
While I'm not sure that either of these is hugely gamechanging, I also don't think the value of these options should be downplayed.
For Pathfinder alone, he could be a valuable addition to melee-heavy factions, and 2-point Ewoks are nothing to sneeze at from a viewpoint of diluting initiative control.
I'm not saying he should be super-expensive, but we need to remember what he brings to allies BESIDES Ewoks.
And, as a side note, if we add sizes to cards, I assume Chirpa will be Small.
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Post by surfrider56 on Jul 13, 2010 17:53:42 GMT -5
Gw .... so, in a nutshell, you're sayin he should cost ....? 16+ ... 20+ .... ?
I still can't see him more than 16-17 even with all your points taken into account.
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