|
|
Post by Jm419 on Jul 13, 2009 18:03:03 GMT -5
Yeah...I'd just recost and label him "unhinged," but oh well.
|
|
|
|
Post by bountyhunter9 on Jul 13, 2009 19:29:37 GMT -5
Lol. Yeah, up cost into the 60s, drop FR1, MotF2, and Mettle and Push 3 and give him Force 5. Or 4. And make the CE non-unique or +3/+3. That's what I would have done, but they've never done such a major revision (that I know of). Then again, I don't think a piece has ever been banned either. Oh well.
|
|
|
|
Post by Jm419 on Jul 13, 2009 20:19:51 GMT -5
Or just recost in the low eighties. But then, Obi-Wan shouldn't be more than a 55 point piece, at the maximum.
|
|
|
|
Post by bountyhunter9 on Jul 13, 2009 22:09:47 GMT -5
Yeah, I would say 55-60 would be max for him. He was very powerful, but not uber-powerful.
|
|
|
|
Post by Jm419 on Jul 14, 2009 11:02:09 GMT -5
He was a Jedi Master, not a poster boy like Anakin or a heavy hitter like Bane. He was calm, composed, and his lightsaber form was very introverted, very understated. Even Republic Anakins shouldn't be costed more than about 65.
|
|
|
|
Post by bountyhunter9 on Jul 14, 2009 11:20:01 GMT -5
Yeah, Anakin never achieved great power either, until he was Vader. And I haven't seen Clone Wars, but Obi doesn't seem to be the uber-commander type either, and yet he has the (arguably) best CE in the game.
|
|
|
|
Post by Jm419 on Jul 14, 2009 11:30:19 GMT -5
Yeah, better than Revan, who was the uber-commander. Anakin was powerful before his fall - how else would he beat Mace in a lightsaber duel that never happened (lol)? He just became much more powerful after his fall, even though his cybernetics pained him for the rest of his life.
|
|
|
|
Post by bountyhunter9 on Jul 14, 2009 11:47:22 GMT -5
Lol. Yeah, how did Mace not see that coming? Yeah, and as Vader he is nigh unstoppable, except eventually to Luke.
|
|
|
|
Post by Jm419 on Jul 14, 2009 18:26:12 GMT -5
He didn't lose to Luke. He let Luke win. He didn't make any mistakes, but he knew that his son was right, so he gave his life to save Luke's.
|
|
|
|
Post by bountyhunter9 on Jul 14, 2009 20:23:57 GMT -5
Huh. I always thought Luke gave into his anger and was able to outright beat Vader. But maybe Vader saw what was happening to his son and gave up to save him. Idk.
|
|
|
|
Post by Jm419 on Jul 14, 2009 21:59:23 GMT -5
That's what I thought was happening. Vader essentially ceased to exist when he saw the Emperor mocking - then killing - his son. Anakin pushed through, even during his duel with Luke, and saw what was happening - he remembered Padme, he remembered all the Jedi he killed - and he knew that he could at least begin to redeem himself by not allowing Luke to make the same mistake. Anakin won that day. Vader didn't lose. Every time I watch Anakin pick up the Emperor and throw him in the cooling shaft, I go, silently, "Yeah!" It's such a cool scene.
Remember, Vader only became who he was because he had, quite literally, lost everything. His best friend dismembered him. He killed his wife. He killed children. He killed his former Masters and colleagues at the temple. He couldn't walk anymore without cybernetic connections. After watching Episode III, you realize that Vader isn't the bad guy - the Emperor is. Vader is really just a pitiful - not dislikable - character, and you have to feel sorry for him.
Besides, if Luke gave into his anger and won, that wouldn't really send the right message, would it? If Luke fell to the Dark Side on the Death Star II, for however brief a time, that wouldn't show that the Light Side was stronger. It would make Yoda wrong when he said the Dark Side wasn't stronger than the Light. No, the battle in the throne room - and really, the entire OT - isn't about Luke, Han, and Leia, though they provide a connection for the audience - no, the Original Trilogy is, in fact, about Vader, but you only realize that after you see the Prequel Trilogy. Releasing the OT before the PT was actually brilliant, whether Lucas realizes it or not. The PT actually changes the entire way audiences view the OT, and it's a very, very complicated story.
|
|
|
|
Post by bountyhunter9 on Jul 15, 2009 9:56:32 GMT -5
Good point. Palpatine really is the evil one, and it shows.
I always thought that Luke gave into his anger and hate when he beat Vader, but then renounced that when he saw what he was doing, both to Vader and to himself, which would show that the Light is stronger than the Dark. And when Vader saw that his son would rather die than destroy all he had lived for and all he had believed in, Vader saw his own error, and that his son was stronger than he was in making the right choice, and Anakin chose to redeem himself to redeem his son, and, less directly, save the galaxy as a whole.
|
|
|
|
Post by Jm419 on Aug 3, 2009 16:26:53 GMT -5
Hmm. That's an interesting concept. The underlying problem is, though, that you have to give into your anger in order to win - something the Light-side teachings prevent. Though having Luke redeem Vader is an interesting concept.
|
|
|
|
Post by bountyhunter9 on Aug 3, 2009 19:20:48 GMT -5
That is true, though Luke had much, much less training than a Jedi would normally have, and thus be much easier for Palpatine to corrupt. And, some Jedi (Mace Windu comes to mind), used a less limiting view of the Force, and used their anger in a different way from the Sith, but in an equally productive way.
|
|
|
|
Post by Jm419 on Aug 3, 2009 21:13:25 GMT -5
Yes, very good (and undisputable) points. I think Lucas would be very happy if he knew we had this debate. This is the reason he didn't tell us everything.
|
|
Man
