New Idea

[Sharrakor]

Feb 24, 2009 22:41:11 GMT -5 surfrider56 said:

Feb 24, 2009 21:34:40 GMT -5 Sharrakor said:

Actually, I'd say that, yes, Kyp and Shado are alot better than Kit Fisto or Ki-Adi-Mundi. Kyp can at least do 80 damage in a turn. Shado can do 40 and move. Between Kit and Ki-Adi-Mundi, they can only do 50 at the most.

My point exactly ... I was refering to the characters, not the figures. Kyp really that much better than Kit as a duelist? Supposedly Kit was excellant ....

Oh... Character-wise. Right. Gotcha.

[gwek]

See, this kind of discussion is part of what makes me nervous about a "reboot" like this. I think there's often the perception that a character without high damage output is an "bad" character, without taking a look at the actual PURPOSE of the piece.

Let's take a look at Ki-Adi-Mundi and Kit Fisto, for example. Are they great examples of Jedi warriors? No, they're certainly not. But the Republic doesn't need them to be, because the Republic has access to mighty Jedi a-plenty.*

(*Although I freely admit that the JWM messed a lot of game balance stuff up...)

Instead of being fearsome Jedi, Kit and Ki are designed as mid-range support pieces. Ki is one of 2 characters with Anticipation, a Force power that allows you to reroll initiative WITHOUT EXPOSING YOURSELF LIKE RECON. That's nothing to sneeze at. Add to that a commander effect that allows you to activate a third ally on your phase (with a few conditions) and you've got a solid support piece was acceptable, if not spectacular, stats for his price.

Kit Fisto, similarly, can be an effective support piece. His stats are good, and Lightsaber Sweep can be effective if used correctly. His commander effect essentially gives allies a +20% change to hit a "blooded" or injured opponent. Against a beatstick with a solid Defense, this bonus can turn the tide of battle.

Are either of these pieces spectacular? No, they're certainly not. But they do each serve a singular niche in their factions. Start turning all the characters of a certain class (for example, Jedi Masters) into cookiee cutter copies with just an extra gimmick each can remove a lot of the flexibility and charm of the game.

[Jm419]

However, an Anakin without FR1? Things like that need to be redone.

[maverick]

I really like the bloomilk rating idea (i think that comment was on the poll thread)

[gwek]

Feb 25, 2009 19:54:17 GMT -5 Jm419 said:

However, an Anakin without FR1? Things like that need to be redone.

Why? Those pieces were designed a certain way for specific, game-balance reasons. Could they be better? Yes. SHOULD they be better? Maybe, maybe not.

To some extent, this is an extension of a concept that come up a number of times during the first Virtual KotOR. "But he had Sith Lightning in the video game!" Yeah, him and every other mook between here and Tatooine! Or "But they always attack in groups, so they should have Swarm!" Sure, pretty much EVERY generic enemy in KotOR should have Swarm...

During that project, I often pointed out that SWM and the KotOR video are two different video games and should be judged differently. The goal was to look at the entire context of a character or idea in the video game and translate it into a balanced mini.

Extend that to all movies and EU sources, and that's basically the challenge that WotC has faced with about 700 minis. Rob (or whoever) has the challenge of trying to make each piece playable, balanced, useful, and an accurate reflection of the source material. There are always going to be pieces that lean more heavily toward one or more of these objectives (and, yes, a few who generally fail to meet ANY of those criteria--even Rob isn't perfect!).

One of my concerns here (and, hey, I've used up more than enough words to get to it!) is that if we start to use benchmarks like "Jedi Masters should be this powerful" or "All the Jedi from the movies seem to be able to do this...", I fear that a lot of game balance and nuance will be ignored and/or lost.

[Jm419]

That's a fair point. Planes?