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Post by Sharrakor on Mar 25, 2009 21:27:25 GMT -5
Suppose I remove Quickdraw. What then?
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Post by gwek on Mar 25, 2009 22:14:05 GMT -5
What's the purpose of this character in the Mando faction? That'll help with what the best way to modify him is.
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Post by Jm419 on Mar 26, 2009 18:48:57 GMT -5
Yeah. What did you envision his role being? Support? Fast, light offense?
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Post by Sharrakor on Mar 26, 2009 23:29:34 GMT -5
I sort of envision this as the Mando's 'Wookiee Elite Warrior'. Something that hits hard and fast. But something that can work ok when standing still.
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Post by gwek on Apr 2, 2009 10:54:11 GMT -5
Assuming you want Melee Attack with 20 Damage, the Mandos already have three options in that area (Warrior, Marauder, and Blademaster), so I'd look at what makes each of them stand out, and act accordingly.
Warrior has Cleave and Melee Reach Marauder has Parry and Stealth Blademaster has Parry and Twin
I think if you go with Charging Assault and Stable Footing, it gives your guy a unique role (although, to me, that says something more like "Berserker" than "Crusader").
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Post by Jm419 on Apr 8, 2009 14:32:48 GMT -5
Well, we do have a Crusader in the database, which means that this guy needs a rename anyway. Sharrakor? It's your figure, let us know.
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Post by Sharrakor on Apr 12, 2009 1:37:18 GMT -5
For the purposes of the database, the name'll be changed to Mandalorian Berserker.
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Post by Jm419 on Apr 12, 2009 9:01:40 GMT -5
Okay. So, are we done?
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Post by Roque Saber on Apr 16, 2009 22:45:34 GMT -5
It actually seems a little weak for its cost. I would raise the HP to at least 60. The 13 pt. Mando Commando (who is non-melee, mind you) has more HP than this guy.
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Post by Jm419 on Apr 17, 2009 15:47:14 GMT -5
Okay. What do other people think?
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Post by gwek on Apr 22, 2009 23:02:01 GMT -5
I think the HP are probably okay as is, but agree that the cost is a little too high. I'd probably put it at 17 or 18 (alternately, add more HP and raise the price accordingly).
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Post by Roque Saber on Apr 23, 2009 10:24:30 GMT -5
Well, if you look at a Mandalorian Crusader, they're pretty beefy guys...
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Post by gwek on Apr 23, 2009 12:33:15 GMT -5
Upon closer inspection of the stats, he's at the low end of the Mando range for HP, attack, and defense, so, yeah, I guess the HPs could go up a bit (50 HP, cost of 18, I'd say).
But keep in mind that relatively speaking, 40 HP is already "pretty beefy."
Let me throw some numbers out there. There are 190+ non-Unique "normal" pieces (medium base, non-Unique, non-Droid, non-Savage, non-commander, no Force rating... each of those categories has their own variations).
Of those 194 pieces, only 53 have 40 HP or more. That's 27%, or about 1 in 40. And 31 of THOSE have 40 HP. Only 22 pieces (or about 11%) have 50 HP or more (for the record, 6 have 60 HP, only 2 have 70 HP, and NONE have more than 70). These numbers go down if you include small pieces and commanders, but up slightly if you include those with Force-ratings.
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Post by Roque Saber on Apr 23, 2009 13:32:16 GMT -5
Also note how many of those are far cheaper than this piece, and how many are deemed unplayable in the meta. The Mandos NEED more competitive, very playable pieces. Although pieces like the Scout will be screamed at for being "broken" for a while, as the meta advances they will simply become very playable pieces, which is what we want. A 40 HP melee piece, in today's meta, will NOT survive at all, unless you can afford to field hordes of them.
Let's take a look at some IE pieces, which are generally "viable in today's meta".
Bothan Commando: 16 points and 40 HP, with Intuition. Intuition gives it the ability to stay out of sight until the beginning of the round, a very strong defensive ability.
Rebel Commando Pathfinder: 11 points and *50* HP. Mobile and Stealth make this guy very hard to kill, note the beefy HP
TBSV: 18 points, 40 HP. GMA and Evade, once again we're seeing average HP with multiple damage avoiding abilities
Note also that all 3 of those pieces are non-melee. The Crusader is. On top of that, he has no damage reducing or defensive abilities, besides Lightsaber Resistance. 50 HP would help, but that's still only needs a 20 and 30 to knock him down. I hope my point has been made.
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Post by gwek on Apr 23, 2009 14:17:53 GMT -5
Also note how many of those are far cheaper than this piece, and how many are deemed unplayable in the meta. The Mandos NEED more competitive, very playable pieces. And here we come to perhaps a difference in philosophy. I believe that there are very few pieces that are truly unplayable, given the right support. When I design customs, I try to supplement existing pieces rather than replacing them. Sure, there are a few that are unsalvageable, but not many, and certainly not the Mandalorians, who already have a number of excellent. I don't believe that every custom should be BETTER than existing pieces. Do you read the KotOR comic? Check out issue 7. This is exactly the way these guys work. You're comparing apples and oranges, and we can circle around all we want. One of the pieces you've cited is a commander (and those are governed by different rules) and two out of three have 10 damage as opposed to 20, which, again, is a big difference. Not every piece has to have a defensive ability. Heck, MOST don't. But when all is said and done, remember that I'm not disagreeing that the HP shouldn't go up a little here, I'm merely noting that 40 HP on a non-unique is often more significant than most people seem to accept. It is often the different between whether they can take one shot or two and that ain't nothing (in fact, I'd say there's a much bigger gap between 30 and 40 HP than between 40 and 50 HP in terms of gameplay and survival).
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