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Post by gwek on Sept 2, 2010 14:31:38 GMT -5
My vote is to stick with Resilient.
I have a concern that if we come up with something else, we might change Shimrra's focus. As is, he offers mobility for the Vong (something they REALLY need) while himself offering great crowd control (something else they can definitely use).
I think he's nice and focussed as he stands, although I do have two questions:
1) Should he be Medium or Large? (If Large, it increases the "range" of his Melee Reach quite a bit)
2) Currently, his CE gives Furious Assault to a bunch of melee pieces... and Nom Anor. Does anyone think it's problematic for Nom to get Furious Assault? (If so, there are at least three ways to deal with it: limit it to followers, limit it to non-Uniques, limit it to those with Melee Attack).
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Post by Dendrite on Sept 2, 2010 15:02:59 GMT -5
Nom with Furious Assault a problem? I'm pretty sure he doesn't move around much when he's used...but we could always specify melee in the CE.
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Post by gwek on Sept 2, 2010 15:29:02 GMT -5
I imagine that Nom would be played quite differently if he were paired with Shimrra.
Sure, he only has 10 damage, buit he also has Cunning Attack and Loner, meaning that he can attack at up to +20 for 20 damage... against EVERY legal target (and that's not including Shaper, Scarification, other commander effects, etc).
Is Nom too deadly?
As an aside, if we keep it so that Nom can benefit, I think we should price Shimrra at 66 so they can Dynamic Duo.
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Post by Dendrite on Sept 2, 2010 16:46:14 GMT -5
It takes 58 points of Commanders (92 total with Nom, and another 13 if the Czerka Scientist is involved, and that's not even considering Shimmra's cost) to get Nom going for 50 damage a shot if:
-Nom's wounded -the target fails a save of 11 to avoid poison -the target hasn't activated -Nom's within 6 squares of the Shaper and Priest
That's a lot of points and conditions to fulfill. Bear in mind also that Nom is the only Vong shooter, and he doesn't have any way of getting Accurate Shot (and competitively, Furious Assault isn't that great for shooters without it)
Of course, any controversy of this can be avoided with the addittion of "with melee attack" to the CE. I don't think it was designed for Nom anyway
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Post by gwek on Sept 2, 2010 19:39:20 GMT -5
I know it takes a lot to get him to a high damage output, but I guess I was more concerned about 20 damage on 10 targets than 50 damage on 3 or 4...
On the other hand, though, as you point out, Nom is the Vong's only shooter, so it might actually be a GOOD thing. Yeah, melee only takes him out of the equation... but do we want to take him out of the equation?
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Post by Dendrite on Sept 3, 2010 21:21:03 GMT -5
I think Nom should be able to benefit. There's only one way to really play him right now, and I think he deserves another
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Post by gwek on Sept 4, 2010 0:11:09 GMT -5
So do we like?
Supreme Overlord Shimrra Faction: Yuuzhan Vong Cost: 66 Hit Points: 180 Defense: 21 Attack: 16 Damage: 20
Unique, Melee Attack; Double Attack Clamp (An enemy hit by this character's attack takes +10 Damage and cannot move this round; save 11 negates) Force Immunity (Enemies cannot affect this character with Force powers, or spend Force points to reroll attacks against this character or to respond to this character's attacks and abilities) Furious Assault (Replaces turn: Can move up to 12 squares, then attack each legal target once) Melee Reach 2 (When attacking, this character treats enemies up to 2 squares away as adjacent) Resilient (Immune to critical hits) Vonduun Crab Armor 11 (When this character takes damage, he can reduce the damage dealt by 10 with a save of 11)
Commander Effect: Yuuzhan Vong allies gain Furious Assault.
As Supreme Overlord of the Yuuzhan Vong, Shimrra ruled with an iron fist and had a reputation for ruthless cruelty.
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Post by bountyhunter9 on Sept 4, 2010 18:14:44 GMT -5
So do we like? Supreme Overlord ShimrraFaction: Yuuzhan Vong Cost: 66 Hit Points: 180 Defense: 21 Attack: 16 Damage: 20 Unique, Melee Attack; Double AttackClamp (An enemy hit by this character's attack takes +10 Damage and cannot move this round; save 11 negates) Force Immunity (Enemies cannot affect this character with Force powers, or spend Force points to reroll attacks against this character or to respond to this character's attacks and abilities) Furious Assault (Replaces turn: Can move up to 12 squares, then attack each legal target once) Melee Reach 2 (When attacking, this character treats enemies up to 2 squares away as adjacent) Resilient (Immune to critical hits) Vonduun Crab Armor 11 (When this character takes damage, he can reduce the damage dealt by 10 with a save of 11) Commander Effect:Yuuzhan Vong allies gain Furious Assault. As Supreme Overlord of the Yuuzhan Vong, Shimrra ruled with an iron fist and had a reputation for ruthless cruelty.Looks good, I don't mind keeping Resilient. Also, while I do believe Nom should benefit from the CE, I wanted to point out that there is a way for him to get Accurate Shot, with Prince Xizor. I don't think it's much of a problem, though, considering that Xizor lacks any further synergy with the YV.
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Post by surfrider56 on Sept 5, 2010 12:20:29 GMT -5
Ok ... after the storm of "Resilient or Doctrine" we seem to have come back to Resilient and dropping down to 66 for a DD with Nom ... are we happy enough about the Doctrine leaving and is this the direction we want to go? Just stating this for clarity's sake ...
I'm still a little leary of him having VCA And Resilient, but since I never play Vong I'm willing to defer to someone who does ..... sorta liked the idea od a Fear type ability too but again, I'm willing to defer .. yada yada yada ... or is that Yoda, Yoda, Yoda in this forum ........
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Post by gwek on Sept 5, 2010 22:42:40 GMT -5
While I could see some concern with VCA and Resilient, it's really not much different than Droids with Shields, is it?
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Post by Dendrite on Sept 5, 2010 23:23:08 GMT -5
I like him.
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Post by surfrider56 on Sept 5, 2010 23:38:02 GMT -5
In that case, who am I to argue
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Post by gwek on Sept 6, 2010 10:04:52 GMT -5
Okay, if we hear back from BH -- or, due to time constraints, if we don't hear any objection -- I'll finalize him on Tuesday.
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Post by surfrider56 on Sept 6, 2010 23:39:57 GMT -5
Pic done .....
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Post by gwek on Sept 8, 2010 8:37:01 GMT -5
Another one re-finalized.
Supreme Overlord Shimrra Faction: Yuuzhan Vong Cost: 66 Hit Points: 180 Defense: 21 Attack: 16 Damage: 20
Unique, Melee Attack; Double Attack Clamp (An enemy hit by this character's attack takes +10 Damage and cannot move this round; save 11 negates) Force Immunity (Enemies cannot affect this character with Force powers, or spend Force points to reroll attacks against this character or to respond to this character's attacks and abilities) Furious Assault (Replaces turn: Can move up to 12 squares, then attack each legal target once) Melee Reach 2 (When attacking, this character treats enemies up to 2 squares away as adjacent) Resilient (Immune to critical hits) Vonduun Crab Armor 11 (When this character takes damage, he can reduce the damage dealt by 10 with a save of 11)
Commander Effect: Yuuzhan Vong allies gain Furious Assault.
As Supreme Overlord of the Yuuzhan Vong, Shimrra ruled with an iron fist and had a reputation for ruthless cruelty.
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