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Post by gwek on Jan 20, 2010 11:18:46 GMT -5
So where do we stand on this guy?
I don't know that there's too much support for my niche commander version, so what else is out there?
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Post by bountyhunter9 on Jan 20, 2010 15:26:36 GMT -5
I was looking through the database here, and found two versions of Tholme. I think we might be able to incorporate some of the elements from this version:
Tholme, Jedi Watchman Cost: 57 HP: 110 Defense: 22 Attack: +13 Damage: 20
Special Abilites: Unique Melee Attack Double Attack Cunning Attack Crowd Fighting Intuition Stealth
Force Powers: Force 4 Jedi Mind Trick Master Speed Force Leap Lightsaber Deflect
Commander Effect: Republic allies with a Force rating within 6 squares gain Stealth.
I that dropping the cost, dropping the defense by one or two points, and dropping Crowd Fightning and changing the CE to affect followers would make it a pretty good piece.
Thoughts?
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Post by gwek on Jan 25, 2010 22:32:29 GMT -5
How long ago was that piece designed? Seems kinda... old school. (I'm also wary of something that Stealth to the likes of Flobi and the JWM...). In looking back over this thread, I realize that it's been more than a month since I last posted my stats. In that time, a lot of discussion has centered on the theoretical nature of Tholme as a commander, but very little on the stats themselves. So, y'know what? I'm throwing them out there again. Remember that the piece as designed is supposed to work with niche Republic squads. As I said earlier in the thread, unlike (for example) the Old Republic or Mandos, I'm not trying to design a piece in answer to the question "What can I do to help this faction be more competitive?" but instead "What can I do to give this faction something new and interesting (and not overpowering)?" So, again: TholmeCost: Faction: Republic Hit Points: 100 Defense: 19 Attack: 10 Damage: 20 UniqueMelee Attack, Double AttackAvoid Defeat (Whenever this character would be defeated, make 2 saves, each needing 11; if both succeed, this character has 10 Hit Points instead of being defeated) Cloaked (If this character has cover, he cannot be targeted by nonadjacent enemies.) Cunning Attack (+4 Attack and +10 Damage against an enemy who has not activated this round) Force 5; Master of the Force 2Force Alter (Force 1: range 6; any 1 enemy rerolls its last attack) Jedi Mind Trick (Force 1, usable only on this character's turn: range 2; target living enemy is considered activated this round and cannot make attacks of opportunity this turn; save 11) Commander Effect:Allies with a Force rating with Stealth gain Cloaked. Once per round, after initiative is determined, 1 ally with Cloaked can immediately move up to its Speed before any other character activates. The most controversial part, of course, was the commander effect. Since the original post, the following ideas were also suggested (and I could see any of them fitting in, with the commander effect or not): Loner Disruptive Surprise Move/Intuition
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Post by Roque Saber on Jan 26, 2010 0:31:45 GMT -5
I really like Disruptive with him. Republic doesn't have any otherwise (besides Nym). I think he would just be better without the CE.
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Post by gwek on Jan 26, 2010 9:52:08 GMT -5
How about the rest of him (down to, but not including, the commander effect)?
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Post by Roque Saber on Jan 26, 2010 12:18:12 GMT -5
THe rest of him I really like. I kind of think a Force power that buffs him would be beneficial though (as opposed to affecting other pieces, like Mind Trick and Alter do). Maybe something like Knight/Master Speed.
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Post by gwek on Jan 26, 2010 15:09:53 GMT -5
Technically, he already has that with Cloaked. He just spend the FPs before the skirmish. I think I'd be more inclined toward Intuition/Surprise Move than greater speed, although if we add Disruptive, we need to be careful about him being TOO mobile.
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Post by bountyhunter9 on Jan 26, 2010 17:40:17 GMT -5
A Surprise Move/Disruptive combo would be EXTREMELY interesting, and I think he should have it as long as he is costed appropriately (above 40) so the Republic doesn't get another abusive piece. Good idea there.
MotF without Force Renewal seems kind of odd. I know WotC's Vodo has it, but it just seems kind of, well, odd. I'm not necessarily against, but it just makes the piece seem kind of off kilter to me. The rest of the FP look good.
As for the base stats: I could see the def and atk being a point higher, though I know very little about the character and whether or not these improved stats would suit him.
Special abilities: Looks good.
Commander Effect: I don't think giving him a specialized CE is too bad of an idea. While they are normally not good to have, a Unique follower in the Republic doesn't get a heck of a lot more bonuses than a Unique ally (the only ones that are anywhere near good being Mon Mothma's Tarfull's, General Skywalker's, and GMY's CEs). The CE only boosts 5 pieces, but it makes 3 of those pieces tremendously effective. I could go either way with it.
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Post by Dendrite on Jan 26, 2010 18:58:40 GMT -5
I very much like this version. I also agree that his stats could be a little higher by one or two increments each...just so he's not too much like the Dark Woman in stats. The CE looks spot-on. I'd cost him as is about 53 (which, coincidentally, makes for quite the dynamic duo with Shaak Ti, JM)
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Post by Dendrite on Feb 1, 2010 22:33:25 GMT -5
bump
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Post by gwek on Feb 5, 2010 14:15:52 GMT -5
There now seems to be less opposition for the niche CE. Thoughts, folks?
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Post by gwek on Feb 23, 2010 12:38:12 GMT -5
Anyone want to talk about Tholme?
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Post by bountyhunter9 on Feb 23, 2010 15:50:30 GMT -5
I'm not against his having a niche CE. My previous post (#52) states my other thoughts, which haven't really changed.
Anyone else have any thoughts/suggestions?
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Post by surfrider56 on Feb 23, 2010 20:12:21 GMT -5
Well ... late to the discussion as I am, I'll toss out that the Tholme i did a year ago had Cost 42
90 17 10 20
Avoid Defeat Recon Cloaked
Force 4 Force Sense Jedi Mind Trick Surprise Move
I tried to stick with what I read his abilities to be in Wookipedia, what I remember from the Dark Horse comics; He wasn't much with a Lightsaber (so no LS abilities and Double?) and I don't remember Leap, but he was Very sneaky, hence Recon, Cloaked and Surprise Move. He definitely did the JediMT ... I could see Cunning Attack, but a CE? He seemed to prefer doing things on the sly, pulling strings behind the scenes. Why a CE? Just for the sake of giving the Faction something?
Alter or Force Sense?
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Post by surfrider56 on Mar 2, 2010 23:52:56 GMT -5
Been forgotten on the backburner?
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