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Vergere
Jul 28, 2010 22:06:39 GMT -5
Post by Dendrite on Jul 28, 2010 22:06:39 GMT -5
Flavor text:
"Everything I tell you is a lie. Every question I ask is a trick. You will find no truth in me."
"Is it what the teacher teaches or what the student learns?"
A Fosh with many allegiances, Vergere trained both Lumiya and Darth Caedus during the many trials of the New Republic
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Vergere
Aug 15, 2010 9:48:48 GMT -5
Post by Dendrite on Aug 15, 2010 9:48:48 GMT -5
+4 against adjacents solves the problem well. ------------------------ Vergere Cost: 37 Faction: Fringe Hit Points: 90 Defense: 19 Attack: 0 Damage: 0 Unique Betrayal (On an attack roll of natural 1 against this character, the attacker joins this character's squad until the end of the skirmish) Dark Master (At the start of the skirmish, choose a Unique allied character. That character may spend Vergere’s Force points as if they were its own.) Rapport (Costs 1 less in a Sith or Yuuzhan Vong squad) Force 3, Force Renewal 1 Force Alter (Force 1: range 6; any 1 enemy rerolls its last attack) Force Stun (Force 1, usable only on this character's turn: range 6; target living enemy is considered activated this round; save 11) Force Cloak (Force 2, replaces turn: For the rest of the skirmish, this character gains Cloaked) Force Heal 30 (Force 2, replaces attacks: touch; remove 30 damage from a living character) Master of the Force 2 (May spend Force points up to 2 times in a single turn) Commander Effect: At the end of this character's turn, choose 1 wounded Unique ally with a Force rating within 6 squares. That ally gets +4 Attack against adjacent enemies until the end of this character's next turn, or until this character is defeated. What do we think? Still looks good to me
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Vergere
Aug 15, 2010 11:07:03 GMT -5
Post by surfrider56 on Aug 15, 2010 11:07:03 GMT -5
Did we ever decide if she fit, as is?
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Vergere
Aug 15, 2010 23:57:53 GMT -5
Post by gwek on Aug 15, 2010 23:57:53 GMT -5
As she currently stands, Vergere won't float. At almost 1100 characters, she has the densest text of any character we've created. She also have a massive number of special abilities and Force powers. Whereas we should be looking for somewhere between 4 and 6, maybe up to 9, I think she has 11 or 12.
Stats below, with some thoughts after THAT:
Vergere Cost: 37 Faction: Fringe Hit Points: 90 Defense: 19 Attack: 0 Damage: 0
Unique Betrayal (On an attack roll of natural 1 against this character, the attacker joins this character's squad until the end of the skirmish) Dark Master (At the start of the skirmish, choose a Unique allied character. That character may spend Vergere’s Force points as if they were its own.) Rapport (Costs 1 less in a Sith or Yuuzhan Vong squad)
Force 3, Force Renewal 1 Force Alter (Force 1: range 6; any 1 enemy rerolls its last attack) Force Stun (Force 1, usable only on this character's turn: range 6; target living enemy is considered activated this round; save 11) Force Cloak (Force 2, replaces turn: For the rest of the skirmish, this character gains Cloaked) Force Heal 30 (Force 2, replaces attacks: touch; remove 30 damage from a living character) Master of the Force 2 (May spend Force points up to 2 times in a single turn)
Commander Effect: At the end of this character's turn, choose 1 wounded Unique ally with a Force rating within 6 squares. That ally gets +4 Attack against adjacent enemies until the end of this character's next turn, or until this character is defeated.
*****
Although I like the special abilities, and think they're all appropriate to Vergere, we need to look at them with a very skeptical eye.
Betrayal and Rapport are both appropriate, but the payoff is minimal, so we need to consider how important they are.
Dark Master, although the longest of the special abilities, should probably stay, since it's sort of a key ability for the character. One possible option would be to make this a commander effect, a la Palpatine.
For Force powers, I think we need to cut quite a bit. First thing I suggest is cutting Master of the Force. Not bad, but do we really need it?
I like Force Heal and Force Cloak on her (very appropriate), but I think one or both of Force Alter and Force Stun should go. First, they mirror the Force Alter/Jedi Mind Trick combo we gave to Tholme. Second, it's a lot on a Fringe Force-user. If we keep one, I would suggest that we keep Force Alter.
Then there's the commander effect. I like it, but I think we need to streamline it--if not cut it entirely and replace it with something else.
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Vergere
Aug 16, 2010 9:56:29 GMT -5
Post by Dendrite on Aug 16, 2010 9:56:29 GMT -5
I think we can lose Rapport, MOTF, and Alter
For the CE, if it must be changed, then it must be changed, but I really like the whole "1 wounded Unique ally with a Force rating within 6 squares" part
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Vergere
Aug 16, 2010 11:25:47 GMT -5
Post by gwek on Aug 16, 2010 11:25:47 GMT -5
I think we really need to take a look at her. There are a lot of good ideas here, but, frankly, she's a mess.
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Vergere
Aug 16, 2010 17:35:17 GMT -5
Post by bountyhunter9 on Aug 16, 2010 17:35:17 GMT -5
I agree with cutting MotF, Rapport, Alter, and even Stun if we need to. As for the CE, I like it too, but I don't think the concept will work if we want to save space. Dropping MotF, Rapport, and Alter won't open up a lot of room, and even without Stun the CE may not fit as is. Anyone have any possible substitutes?
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Vergere
Aug 16, 2010 21:41:11 GMT -5
Post by gwek on Aug 16, 2010 21:41:11 GMT -5
How 'bout: VergereFaction: Fringe Cost: Hit Points: 90 Defense: 19 Attack: 0 Damage: 0 UniqueBetrayal (On an attack roll of natural 1 against this character, the attacker joins this character's squad until the end of the skirmish) Dark Master (At the start of the skirmish, choose a Unique allied character. That character may spend Vergere’s Force points as if they were its own.) Force 3, Force Renewal 1Force Cloak (Force 2, replaces turn: For the rest of the skirmish, this character gains Cloaked) Force Heal 30 (Force 2, replaces attacks: touch; remove 30 damage from a living character) Commander Effect:Each wounded Unique ally with a Force rating within 6 squares gets +4 Attack against adjacent enemies.
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Vergere
Aug 16, 2010 23:05:40 GMT -5
Post by bountyhunter9 on Aug 16, 2010 23:05:40 GMT -5
How 'bout: VergereFaction: Fringe Cost: Hit Points: 90 Defense: 19 Attack: 0 Damage: 0 UniqueBetrayal (On an attack roll of natural 1 against this character, the attacker joins this character's squad until the end of the skirmish) Dark Master (At the start of the skirmish, choose a Unique allied character. That character may spend Vergere’s Force points as if they were its own.) Force 3, Force Renewal 1Force Cloak (Force 2, replaces turn: For the rest of the skirmish, this character gains Cloaked) Force Heal 30 (Force 2, replaces attacks: touch; remove 30 damage from a living character) Commander Effect:Each wounded Unique ally with a Force rating within 6 squares gets +4 Attack against adjacent enemies. I like it. Assuming we want to go with this version, we could probably add Force Alter or maybe Stun back in, if we wanted to.
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Vergere
Aug 17, 2010 8:21:43 GMT -5
Post by gwek on Aug 17, 2010 8:21:43 GMT -5
With the commander effect significantly cut down, the word count went down a lot.
It's possible that we might be able to squeeze Force Alter AND Force Stun onto the card, assuming there's no text.
I'm all for trying that, I think. Put them both back in, and leave it to fate (and Galak Fyyar) to see what fits on the final card.
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Vergere
Aug 17, 2010 9:43:08 GMT -5
Post by Dendrite on Aug 17, 2010 9:43:08 GMT -5
Agreed
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Vergere
Aug 17, 2010 10:40:34 GMT -5
Post by gwek on Aug 17, 2010 10:40:34 GMT -5
So, the plan is this: We'll set on this Vergere until Surfrider is back. If he agrees (and if no one else changes their mind), I'll approve her at that point. If GF can fit her on a card, great. Done. If not, it will be his discretion to remove Force Alter and/or Force Stun. Now, assuming we keep both Force powers: cost? VergereFaction: Fringe Cost: Hit Points: 90 Defense: 19 Attack: 0 Damage: 0 UniqueBetrayal (On an attack roll of natural 1 against this character, the attacker joins this character's squad until the end of the skirmish) Dark Master (At the start of the skirmish, choose a Unique allied character. That character may spend Vergere’s Force points as if they were its own.) Force 3, Force Renewal 1Force Alter (Force 1: range 6; any 1 enemy rerolls its last attack) Force Cloak (Force 2, replaces turn: For the rest of the skirmish, this character gains Cloaked) Force Heal 30 (Force 2, replaces attacks: touch; remove 30 damage from a living character) Force Stun (Force 1, usable only on this character's turn: range 6; target living enemy is considered activated this round; save 11) Commander Effect:Each wounded Unique ally with a Force rating within 6 squares gets +4 Attack against adjacent enemies. ***** Although she's a bit of a case of "the rich get richer" in that she can help almost any faction (except the Vong and perhaps Mandos), I think she'll be some solid help for smaller factions like the Sith and Old Republic.
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Vergere
Aug 17, 2010 10:45:28 GMT -5
Post by Dendrite on Aug 17, 2010 10:45:28 GMT -5
I would say low to mid 30s...
Maybe 35?
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Vergere
Aug 18, 2010 22:01:55 GMT -5
Post by bountyhunter9 on Aug 18, 2010 22:01:55 GMT -5
I think high 30s might be better. She offers a lot (namely the effects of DM and FH 30), and she's Fringe. I think a cost of 37-42 would be good.
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Vergere
Aug 18, 2010 22:20:43 GMT -5
Post by gwek on Aug 18, 2010 22:20:43 GMT -5
Heck, even just the commander effect is a potential game-changer, especially considering that she's Fringe.
On the other hand, there's very little that she can do on her own. She's sort of the ultimate Swiss Army knife support piece... but she's still a support piece, so I feel a bit guilty about having her break 40.
How about 39?
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