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Post by gwek on Dec 16, 2009 22:23:22 GMT -5
It was JANGO, not Cassus, who fought Viszla. Cassus Fett is from the Old Republic era.
I would advise against Gregarious, because it would be largely redundant with (but would still stack with) the Quartermaster's +4.
If we want him to have synergy (the word--not the special ability) with ManUlt, there are a few things I can think of.
One option would be "Mandalorian allies gain Deadly Attack." This would be a boon to the faction in general (although 2 pieces already have it); ManUlt would benefit more, thanks to his increases chances of Flurry Attack.
Another option would be to do something with the movement aspect of Charging Fire, possibly by adapting the commander effect of Princess Leia Senator: Each Mandalorian ally that ends its move within 6 squares of this character can move 2 extra squares at the end of its turn. Under the right circumstances, this allows allies to charge forward, take their shot, then retreat a little to safety.
A third option doesn't involve a commander effect at all. How about this: Rapport (Mandalorians cost 1 less when in a squad with this character. This includes allies affected by Mandalorian Conscription.) This is not as glorious as some other options, but since it reduces the cost a many pieces, the savings could start to pile up.
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Post by darthgrievous on Dec 16, 2009 22:28:30 GMT -5
Oh yea Jango and Jaster Mareel, too many Mandos. Rapport would be good, and flanking support as well for that good ole combining fire.
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Post by Roque Saber on Dec 17, 2009 0:51:07 GMT -5
Hmm. I like the idea of affecting Mando allies, including those who are Mandos by Conscription. Possibly a Rapport - 2 since Mandos are heavily costed anyway. For a CE, I think a Gree-like (allies count as the same) CE along with granting Squad Firepower would be intersting. I know Mando's are already super powered shooters, but it's just an idea.
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Post by gwek on Dec 17, 2009 3:03:07 GMT -5
Other than the AT-ST, are there any other Rapports that are over -1?
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Post by darthgrievous on Dec 17, 2009 8:06:04 GMT -5
Nope, all Rapports are -1 other than the AT-ST. Perhaps we should keep it that way.
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Post by bountyhunter9 on Dec 17, 2009 17:45:54 GMT -5
You mean Blizzard Scout 1 .The AT-ST has no Rapport Anyway, I like both the second CE gwek suggested as well as the Rapport (we might even be able to give him both). With the Rapport you posted, gwek, the last sentence is not necessary, because MtU's Mando Conscription makes all characters in the squad Mandos for all purposes, making them subject to that Rapport even without the last sentence. I'm somewhat against a Gree-like CE with Squad Firepower b/c we've already given something similar to another character in the Lost Twenty (Lord Hoth), and that's not something we'd want to be throwing around the factions, IMO.
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Post by gwek on Dec 18, 2009 1:24:42 GMT -5
You're probably right about the second sentence. I wasn't sure about the timing of Rapport and Mandalorian Conscription. I'm assuming Rapport "happens" when you purchase the piece (hence, TECHNICALLY before they're in the squad), while MC occurs for all characters "in your squad." I think I may have been mistaken, though (based on the phrasing of Rapport).
Anyway...
So where do we stand with Cassus?
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Post by gwek on Dec 18, 2009 1:34:19 GMT -5
Maybe something like as a starting point: Cassus FettCost: Faction: Mandalorian Hit Points: 100 Defense: 20 Attack: 11 Damage: 20 Unique Double Attack Flight (Ignores difficult terrain, enemy characters, low objects, and pits when moving) Rapport (Mandalorians cost 1 less when in a squad with this character) Recon (Roll twice for initiative once per round, choosing either roll, if any character with Recon in the same squad has line of sight to an enemy) Commander Effect:Each Mandalorian ally that ends its move within 6 squares of this character can move 2 extra squares at the end of its turn. ****** He's not stellar, but I straddles the line of being a fairly solid combatant himself while also have a few good leader/tactical abilities.
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Post by Roque Saber on Dec 19, 2009 0:38:59 GMT -5
I think he's starting to become a bit too fighter-ish. Let's lower his stats a tad and give him a little more commanding abilities. Recon is particular seems odd. If he's a commander, you usually won't want to expose him (though other commanders have it, which I found very odd).
So let's brainstorm again for the CE. What would really help the Mando faction, something they don't yet have (but remember we want to be creative). For a sec, I'm almost thinking a Dodonna-like tempo control. Or even the CE from TLT's Revan. (You can choose to activate 1, 2, or 3 characters each phase)
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Post by gwek on Dec 19, 2009 1:50:52 GMT -5
I think he's starting to become a bit too fighter-ish. Let's lower his stats a tad and give him a little more commanding abilities. Well, he's a Mandalorian, so I think making him tough is appropriate. I arrived at the numbers by upgrading the generic Mando commanders a bit. If I recall correctly, he was a Mando Field Marshall (high level commander) was was promoted. It's a long-standing tradition (since Universe) that strategic commanders can have Recon. Almost half of the character with Recon fall into this model. Way I see it, it boils down to the commander "surveying the scene" (line of sight to an enemy) and then using the intel to form a superior combat plan (roll twice for Initiative). Ironically, you're saying to give him more commander abilities---when I think of Recon as exactly one of those abilities! Having said that, however, we could easily replace it was some other tactical ability. I think we talked about something like this: Tactician (If you roll an 11 or higher, you automatically choose who goes first)I'm open to suggestions. This CE was off the suggestion to find a way to make him work well with Mandalore the Ultimate... although I DO think that this is a CE that could benefit the Mandos in general. What do you think of giving him Reserves or Reinforcements? Too much with the Rapport?
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Post by darthgrievous on Dec 19, 2009 7:29:57 GMT -5
Im saying no to reserves, rapport is plenty, and with Mandos being so expensive, youll basically get to have one piece come into play, hardly reserves. Tactician looks good, thats a 50/50 on winning intiative all the time so thats not bad at all. I like Recon and it gives Mandos something new.
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Post by bountyhunter9 on Dec 19, 2009 12:57:08 GMT -5
I'd be in favour of SKILLED (I think this is a database ability, and we might as well keep it the same here) Tactician over Recon, ST seems more like Cassus than Recon.
I'd suggest giving him slightly lower base stats - probably 90 HP and 19 defense. Otherwise, that last version you posted, gwek, has my approval.
On the CE, I like the one he has now, but am not particularly attached to it. I don't think we should give him tempo control, as that's a pretty major thing for a faction and only a select few (well, pretty much the movie factions minus the Republic, and then NR has it) actually have it. If we DO want to give Cassus a tempo-control CE, I don't think it should be like Dodonna's because that's something unique to him (and would be exceptionally powerful with the Mandos). I think one either like Admiral Ozzel's CE or Moff Morlish Veed's CE.
Anyone have any suggestions for the CE?
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Post by Roque Saber on Dec 19, 2009 13:09:13 GMT -5
Morlish's CE is useless, Tarkins is possible.
Agreed. The thing is though, if you have a commander who is really boosting your troops, the last thing you want to do is open him to enemy fire. That's why I've always been confused when Wizards gives fragile commanders Recon. It seems contradictory. Granted, with this Cassus, he's a it beefier and could stand out there for a little bit, but it's still just a little weird.
Ya it's major, and that's why the Mandos need it. The movie factions get it because they are the factions that get the most attention. It's because the non-movie factions don't get these essential support pieces that they aren't as competitive as the others (excluding a few, NR in particular).
The way I see it, it's all the more reason he should have something like it (maybe not tempo control, but something that the "Big 4" factions have).
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Post by gwek on Dec 19, 2009 22:13:25 GMT -5
Two thoughts:
1) We don't really have anything reflecting his codification of the Neo-Crusaders. Not saying we need to have it, but I wanted to mention it.
2) In terms of tempo control, I will once again mention the idea of a counter-ability which could cancel, or on some way alter, those abilities in the same way that NTMtO cancels initiative-based abilities.
During the "false war," Cassus forces the Republic to commit all their forces so he can get a good idea of what he's dealing with. Something like that might make for an interesting variant rather than just a canceller:
If your opponent can chose how many characters he activates per phase, you may chose to have him activate the maximum number.
I'm not putting a push on to get something like this added, but since RS brought up tempo control, I thought it might be worth the mention.
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Post by darthgrievous on Dec 20, 2009 9:39:10 GMT -5
I do think an ability that wouldn't necessary give the Mandos tempo control but force the other team to stay in tempo would be cool, that way Dodonna teams have to use 2 and Mar Tuuk teams have to use 2 instead of 3. As far as tactician, I think naming it skilled tactician makes sense.
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