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Post by Dendrite on Dec 9, 2009 19:39:47 GMT -5
Cassus Fett - Mandalorian - 31 pts
Hp: 70 Def: 17 Att: 10 Da: 20
-Unique -Aide-De-Camp (At the end of this character's turn, choose one Mandalorian ally within 6 squares. That ally gains Shields 2 until the end of the round) -Master Tactitian -Double Attack
CE: Mandalorian allies without Melee Attack gain Opportunist. Mandalorian allies with Melee Attack gain Evade.
I designed him to be a tough commander. Mandos need more survivability in my opinion, and Shield and Evade will do the trick. Master Tactitian paired with Cunning are also brutal.
Credit to gwek for inspiration on the shield ability and the evade part of the CE.
EDIT: I'll tone him down
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Post by Roque Saber on Dec 9, 2009 20:38:52 GMT -5
Hmm. I like the idea, but I don't think it fits the character. Cassus wasn't the hulking brute you saw on the front lines. Master Tactition might work, Shields is also maybe. I just want to know what the relation to the in-universe character is.
Good start though, the more ideas we have the better.
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Post by bountyhunter9 on Dec 10, 2009 16:40:48 GMT -5
I agree with RS. This version is probably too powerful. I like the idea of increasing the survivability of the Mandos, but Shields 2 to Mando ALLIES, Evade to those with melee, and Cunning combined with Master Tactician is a lot. For the CE, I would say just pick one part of it. A single character shouldn't increase the playability of his faction by so much, because it doesn't strengthen the faction as much as multiple boosting characters. So we should make this guy not as a the single Mando that makes the Mandos a better defensive unit, but one who makes them better and leaves room for future CEs.
I like the Aide-De-Camp idea, but I think it would be better if it specifies one ally to gain the Shields, similar to the Droid Mark special ability.
Also, I like the Cassus Fett we have in the database here, so here's some more stats:
Cassus Fett
Cost: 37 Hit Points: 40 Defense: 18 Attack: +4 Damage: 10
Special Abilities: Strategist (The player controlling this character chooses the two characters his opponent activates this turn) Foresight: (Roll a dice. If the result is higher than 15, four allied characters gain a second activation this round.) Rapport: (Mandalore the Ultimate costs 1 less if placed in a squad with this character.)
I didn't make this character, but I really liked the Strategist ability. I'm not suggesting we use this exact chatacter, because Foresight doesn't really fit with game mechanics (it should fit into an initiative roll or at least have a specified time for when the die is rolled), and other than that he's not very exciting. I do like the base stats for Cassus, but we could probably bump them up a bit for this one.
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Post by Dendrite on Dec 10, 2009 19:04:52 GMT -5
Edited.
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Post by Roque Saber on Dec 10, 2009 19:42:36 GMT -5
Hmm, just noticed that giving out Cunning might be a little vicious with Scouts. I think Aide-de-Camp might need a new name and should just give Shields 2 at the beginning of the skirmish if we keep it.
As for the second version, I also really like Strategist. Foresight if iffy, but we could try to incorporate some "strategic" SAs.
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Post by bountyhunter9 on Dec 11, 2009 15:31:29 GMT -5
The current version of Aide-De-Camp looks really good. Having it like Droid Mark encourages more strategizing than having it give Shields to one character for the skirmish, IMO.
That's just the Cassus Fett from the db here, I'm not suggesting we use him, but we could incoporate some elements of that custom. Strategist is definitely possible, and a modified, toned-down Foresight is possible too. The CE looks much more balanced now, with Cunning only to non-Uniques.
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Post by Roque Saber on Dec 11, 2009 16:56:40 GMT -5
What if the two parts of the CE boosted non-melee and melee allies specifically? So like
Allies without Melee Attack gain Opportunist. Allies with Melee Attack gain Evade.
Not necessarily with those abilities or for all allies, but you get the picture. He would be able to boost the two halves of the Mando faction in different ways.
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Post by Dendrite on Dec 11, 2009 19:29:26 GMT -5
Sounds good
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Post by bountyhunter9 on Dec 11, 2009 21:49:25 GMT -5
Good idea. He's starting to turn out really well. Would we be able to fit another ability (possibly Strategist or a modified Foresight from the db version) on Cassus?
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Post by Roque Saber on Dec 11, 2009 22:25:29 GMT -5
I think Strategist would go well, though the original version was worded awkwardly. How about
Strategist (Once per round, you may decide which characters your opponent activates)
Also, just realized that he has Double. Is that needed?
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Post by bountyhunter9 on Dec 12, 2009 9:08:40 GMT -5
We reworded Strategist for my Grand Admiral Thrawn, Imperial Commander you just added to the database. I think that wording took care of the problems, so we could use that:
(Once per round, you may choose which characters your opponent activates)
I'm not sure he needs Double and base 20 damage, Double with base 10 would be good, or just base 20.
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Post by gwek on Dec 12, 2009 12:19:52 GMT -5
I have to say that I'm not a fan of Aide-de-Camp or Strategist.
With respect to Aid-de-Camp, although everyone in the KotOR era has access to shields, the Mandos had no particular affinity for them, and Cassus certainly didn't hand 'em out.
Strategist bothers me from a game design point of view. In SWM, there are abilities that deny an opponent certain options, but no abilities that FORCE a player to make a certain decision. To me, doing something like that takes a lot of fun out of the game.
There's also nothing in any of Cassus Fett's apperances to indicate that he's a deceptive enough strategist to force this kind of decision. Clever and brutal, yes, but forcing a player to use two particular character is something that it would take an intellect on the order of Sidious to pull off.
I think he should definitely have stragetic abilities, but I don't think he's depicted as on the same level as Sidious, Thrawn, or even Revan. I think Master Tactician and Strategist (as currently depicted) are too much.
As a side-note, We see him using a jetpack, so I'd recommend Flight.
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Post by Roque Saber on Dec 12, 2009 12:46:36 GMT -5
Good poiints there GWEk. (and nice to see you over here) Do you have any ideas on how we could change them?
I know I had made a reduced form of MT a while back for some pieces who were smart, but not Thrawn level smart.
Tactition +X (Add +X to all your initiative rolls)
Would something like that work as a suitable replacement?
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Post by bountyhunter9 on Dec 12, 2009 14:01:16 GMT -5
Good point, Gwek. I didn't know why Aide-De-Camp gave out Shields.
As for Strategist being "unfair" - that's the whole point to SWM. If you're going to play fair, then you have to beat your opponent with skill, not with the pieces you have. I've playtested Strategist with others, and found it to be a remarkable ability. It's not "unfair" in any way. It may annoy my opponent for a phase, but it doesn't take any fun out of the game. It doesn't force a player to do anything, it just changes the order of play. I managed to save a character for a phase with it, because I made my opponent activate two lesser characters rather than his big beat. It's similar to MT and auto-winnning initiative. It is certainly annoying, but not unfair. You pay for the MT or Strategist just as someone else pays for Evade and Mobile Attack, or save rerolls, etc.
However, I agree that Strategist AND Master Tactician would be way too much. Like you said, this guy is probably in the "second tier" of commanders, behind guys like Thrawn and Revan. So MT would not fit, and Strategist might not either, but something like Roque's Tactician or Skilled Tactician X (like MT but you have to roll X or higher) would definitely be in order, IMO.
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Post by gwek on Dec 13, 2009 0:55:25 GMT -5
I respectfully disagree re: Strategist and stand by I disagreeertion that it is a "forced hand" ability unlike anything that currently exists in the game... However, let's table that particular discussion for now and see if we can work around it.
I was thinking about Cassus Fett and what makes him a unique commander, as anchors to potentially base him around. I've come up with 3 possibilities.
1) First up, we have Flight. This alone is enough to distinguish him from the Mandalores, although Boba also has Flight. However, the two characters will likely be different enough that this particular similarity won't matter.
2) Second, Cassus Fett was the guy who pushed to "standardize" the Mandos into NeoCrusaders. This happened under Mandalore the Ultimate's regime, and is, in theory, reflected by ManUlt's Mandalorian Consciption ability. We might want to come up with some variation on that theme, or something that synergizes well with ManUlt, to capitalize on that.
3) As a strategist, one his accomplishments was for force the Old Republic to commit to engagements that they might not have wanted to be involved in, and to fully commit, if not overcommit.
This got me thinking about the characters who have the option to select how many pieces can be activated. How know people find them disruptive and there is currently no remedy for that. Perhaps Cassus can be that remedy, either negating such abilities, or forcing these characters to commit the maximum number of pieces allowable, or something like that.
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