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Post by generalgrevious on Apr 20, 2009 12:19:27 GMT -5
Cost: 55 HP:130 Def: 22 Att: +12 Dam: 20
Special Abilities Unique Melee Attack Double Attack Twin Attack Loner Crowd Defence (This character gains +2 defence for every adjacent character with Melee Attack or a Force Rating) Affinity (This character may be in a Sith Squad) Vengeful (This character gains Savage when a character with a force rating is within 6 squares)
Force 4 Force Leap Sith Rage Lightsaber Assult Lightsaber Block
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Post by Jm419 on Apr 20, 2009 12:22:48 GMT -5
I like the affinity. Overconfidence might be a bit much, but I suppose it really would help drive down his cost. Sith Rage 2 should cost Force 2, I believe. And, isn't Mettle a rather Light-sided FP?
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Post by generalgrevious on Apr 20, 2009 12:49:24 GMT -5
Okay took out Mettle, Lowered Overconfidence to -2 def, and raised Force cost on Sith Rage 2
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Post by planeswalker459 on Apr 21, 2009 20:38:43 GMT -5
Nice work GG.
Interesting concept, need time to think on it. seems pretty cool though.
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Post by generalgrevious on Apr 22, 2009 12:58:39 GMT -5
Take all the time you need
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Post by gwek on Apr 22, 2009 22:53:35 GMT -5
A good start, but I'd price him in the 50s, based on his potential damage output and high defense.
Although he's a nice addition to the Seps, he's a true monster in a Sith squad. Pair him with Krayt and Sidious for Triple/Twin and Force Renewal.
Although Maul CotF has a defensive ability, they always seem a little odd on him. I think I'd rather see him with another straightforward power instead of Block.
While Overconfidence is a nice limiter, it seems a bit awkward. Is it cumulative, for example?
Might I offer Vengeful (gains Savage when within 6 of an enemy with a Force rating) as an alternative? I think it's as appropriate to the character as Overconfidence, and also helps limit some of the potential commander effect abuse. It also makes him play best without relying on commander support, which I think works well with Maul.
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Post by generalgrevious on Apr 23, 2009 8:23:35 GMT -5
The purpose of Overconfidence was that after he killed Qui-Gon he got exremely thingyy which is basiaclly the only reason Obi Wan could kill him. No it wouldn't stack but at every int he would get his defence back. I also remebered to add cleve, and I will think about adding Vengeful.
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Post by planeswalker459 on Apr 23, 2009 13:20:17 GMT -5
I agree with gwek on certain aspects.
I think Force Leap or Riposte fits Maul better than block, and 5 seems too high for force on him. I would give him 4.
Loner over cleave might be a better option, as he fought by himself, and while cleave is nice, he never actually uses it in the movies. More accurately, he si the one who gets cleaved.
Beyond those minor things, I would price it around 55. Make those changes, and adding vengful, and his cost might go down.
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Post by gwek on Apr 23, 2009 14:01:23 GMT -5
The purpose of Overconfidence was that after he killed Qui-Gon he got exremely thingyy which is basiaclly the only reason Obi Wan could kill him. No it wouldn't stack but at every int he would get his defence back. I also remebered to add cleve, and I will think about adding Vengeful. I understand the point of Overconfidence, but I don't know that I agree that it was Maul's overconfidence that brought about his downfall, so much as Kenobi's skills and creativity. More to the point, in game terms, at LEAST one or more round passes between Maul defeating Qui-Gon and Kenobi defeating HIM. In the immediate aftermath of Qui-Gon's death, Maul is completely on his game. Not saying he shouldn't have it; just playing Devil's advocate.
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Post by generalgrevious on Apr 24, 2009 12:16:09 GMT -5
I agree with gwek on certain aspects. I think Force Leap or Riposte fits Maul better than block, and 5 seems too high for force on him. I would give him 4. Loner over cleave might be a better option, as he fought by himself, and while cleave is nice, he never actually uses it in the movies. More accurately, he si the one who gets cleaved. Beyond those minor things, I would price it around 55. Make those changes, and adding vengful, and his cost might go down. I want this Maul to have many Force not so much to show his force but without giving him Parry I want to show that his skills with a lightsaber were extraordinary especially in defence. When you watch the duel he was fighting off two Jedi by himself easyily. I remeber now that there is an ability that makes it so you can't use force to re-roll or move extra which might work on this Maul then I wouldn't be too cautious of giving him Master of the Force. Or maybe I should just give him parry, Also another ability I have been thinking would be to give him a Crowd Fighting like ability only for defence so (+2 Defence for every character with Melee Attack adjacent to this character). Or Just give him Lightsaber Duelist. Basicly I want this Maul to show off his defensive abilites which I think the other one's were extremely lacking. Loner is a great option but I don't want his attack to be so high he is super up-costed I will add that and Leap in but for now I'm keeping the Block in for now. As for my stand on Vengeful I'm starting to lean towards it more. Is it already a made ability b/c I would want to change it a bit. Maybe make it (This character gains savage when adjacent to any enemy with a force rating) so it shows that he wouldn't really back down from the fight.
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Post by generalgrevious on Apr 24, 2009 12:19:27 GMT -5
The purpose of Overconfidence was that after he killed Qui-Gon he got exremely thingyy which is basiaclly the only reason Obi Wan could kill him. No it wouldn't stack but at every int he would get his defence back. I also remebered to add cleve, and I will think about adding Vengeful. I understand the point of Overconfidence, but I don't know that I agree that it was Maul's overconfidence that brought about his downfall, so much as Kenobi's skills and creativity. More to the point, in game terms, at LEAST one or more round passes between Maul defeating Qui-Gon and Kenobi defeating HIM. In the immediate aftermath of Qui-Gon's death, Maul is completely on his game. Not saying he shouldn't have it; just playing Devil's advocate. Maul definatly became extremely thingyy in his fighting after he killed Qui-Gon. Him paceing back and forth just waiting for Kenobie to come at him shows this clearly. Maybe change it to like a 2 round effect instead of 1 or maybe completly take it out. Also Kenobi was extremely lucky with that attack. Maybe add in a effect (Takes Triple damage from Critical Hits instead of Double) I dont know if it is already made yet but it could work on this Maul.
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Post by gwek on Apr 24, 2009 13:58:36 GMT -5
Maul definatly became extremely thingyy in his fighting after he killed Qui-Gon. Him paceing back and forth just waiting for Kenobie to come at him shows this clearly. I'm not saying he's not overconfident, but I never interpreted his pacing as overconfidence so much as restlessless. He's an animal on the hunt, anxious for the kill (underscored by the fact that his facial tattooing mirrors a tiger's stripes). After he kills Jinn, that gets ratcheted up a notch because blood is in the air... 2-round effects aren't really used in SWM. Most things in this game are "figure and forget." To be honest, I think you're sort of "micromanaging" Maul's defeat with stuff like this. Crowd Defense is interesting, but I don't know if it captures Maul, since it's sort of situational based on his opponents. Have you considered giving him a lightsaber Style?
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Post by bountyhunter9 on Apr 24, 2009 21:00:30 GMT -5
I think that Kenobi more tapped into the Dark side when he defeated Maul, he seemed to be pretty pissed.
Anyway, I think that the cost could be too low, looking at the original post. I think some changes have been made, but I would need to see them. He can deal 160 in a round, and he can do that twice (more with Holo Sid), and he would be very difficult to hit when in melee. Here's what I think: I think that Parry needs to go (I think this change may already have been made, but I'm no sure). Also, I think Venegful would work better than Overconfidence, because it would turn him off from the powerful Sith CEs. Maybe change Sith Rage 2 to normal Sith Rage?
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Post by gwek on Apr 24, 2009 21:10:49 GMT -5
I don't disagree with any of that.
I think Parry, especially, does not need to be paired with another defensive ability like Crowd Defense. Maul's style is very much aggressive and of the "best defense is a good offense" philosophy.
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Post by generalgrevious on Apr 24, 2009 21:59:58 GMT -5
Tought over everything you guys said and updated him a bit.
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