Saul Karath (Virtual KotOR)

[gwek]

I'm all for streamlining, but when handing out stuff to Pilots, remember that Krayt and Lumiya have it (although you probably DID remember that... because Accurate Shot gains them nothing!).

Don't you think all Followers gaining Evade is a bit much? D'you really want Lucien Draay having Evade? OR Caedus? Or DARTH BANE?!?

As you may recall from past incarnations of VKotOR, one of my goals with Sith commander effects is always "How can we not give this to Bane?"

[planeswalker459]

True....but I figured you wanted carth to gain evade, as he happend to have deadeye.

Perhaps you could make it a clarifier, such as Followers without a force rating gain evade. Karath spent more time with normal troops than with Jedi, so granting it specifically to non force users fits his character, and still keeps with the"carth Desperatley needs improvement" idea.

And as for Krayt and Lumyia....I jsut pretend they DONT have pilot for sanities sake...and yes, they wouldnt benefit from it anyway.

[Jm419]

Followers without a Force Rating would work.

[gwek]

How about:

Commander Effect: Followers with Pilot gain Soldier and Accurate Shot (Can attack an enemy with cover even if it's not the nearest enemy). Non-Fringe followers without a Force rating gain Evade (When hit by an attack from a nonadjacent enemy, this character takes no damage with a save of 11).


As phrase, the second benefit would help the following:

Sith: Mostly the generic army types, but also the Sith Assassin. (If paired with Uliq, most Mandos are impacted.)

Old Republic: Carth, Bao-Dur, the Wookiees, and the "army" (Soldier, Guard, Recruit, Scout).

I think keeping it "non-Fringe" helps keep the focus where it belongs (on Sith and Old Rep pieces) and also ties in nicely with the OR Officer, who has a similar CE.

[Jm419]

It's closer, but still too wordy, I'd say. It just doesn't flow, you know what I mean? It seems too specific.

[gwek]

I see what you're saying, but I don't know that it's wordier than a few of WotC's commander effects.

As for being a bit specific... Well, yeah! These are pretty potent abilities that aren't qualified by a range of 6. It's not uncommon for a commander effect to have 2 qualifiers. The spin here, I think, is the "without a Force rating" phrasing.

The first CE is basically "Followers with X gain Y and Z." There's LOTS of that from WotC.

The second CE, slightly rephrased, is: "Non-X, non-Y followers gain Z" OR "Non-X followers with[out] Y gain Z." In complexity, this is not much different than, say, "Non-Unique followers with Deadeye gain..." (and we've got CEs like that, no?).

Any suggestions for how to streamline?

[Jm419]

Not particularly. You seem to like your CE a lot.

[gwek]

Well, I'm not sure how to change it without making it too powerful or too weak...

Here's the thing: I loved the old Saul Karath, but having bounced around more ideas, I love him more now that we've streamlined (and I think improved) him. So who's to say there's not an even BETTER version if we continue discussion?

[planeswalker459]

I think part of the wordy issue is that part that reads "Non Fringe", especially because the first part of the CE desont have that limitation.

I think its just easier to say "Followers without a force rating gain X"

It keeps in line with the first aprt of the CE, and keeps it from being too wordy

[gwek]

D'you think it would be better if BOTH parts were non-Fringe? (And let with a "Fringe characters are not subject to these commander effects" or somesuch).

My concern is that open-ended Evade is potentially a game-changer Do we really want all those Bobas getting Evade?

[planeswalker459]

They already do via Wedge, so its not that scary.

I think keeping both simply Followers solves the problem.

[gwek]

True enough. I was thinking of the OTHER Wedge, who just gives it to Pilots.

Other than negotiating this final point, do we like him?

[planeswalker459]

Yes, I think it really fits the brutal and efficent Saul Karath

[Jm419]

So we're just using "Followers gain x and y?"

[gwek]

Does removing the limit drive up the cost? If not, sounds good. If so, however, I'd rather keep him affordable (and focused... he seems like someone who wouldn't work with "rabble"!)