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Post by saber1 on Dec 18, 2009 19:14:01 GMT -5
There's also all that can't heal/takes damage that must be addressed in a unique way stuff... I think most SWM powers are basically "If A, then B". Yours is "If A [spend FPs], then B [gain extra abilities], but also C [cannot heal or be healed] as well as D [takes recurring damage], which E [is an exception to the rule for how damage is normally dealt with]." I see what you are saying...or typing. My thoughts are: 1) A & B aren't the issues 2) C will likely never be an issue as most squads do not have a healing component and the player will build the squad with the limitation in mind. 3) D has a precendent with Force Corruption 4) E...what was E again? Damage may not be prevented? Disintegration has that precedent as well. Am I correct in that your main critique is the fact that there is a lot of things going on in one SA? If so, it can be paired down. Taking recurring damage can be translated into a lower HP stat, for instance.
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Post by gwek on Dec 18, 2009 22:48:03 GMT -5
I just think there's a simpler way to do the character.
But I tend to me conservative in my character creation, and prefer to create as few custom abilities as possible.
By the way, I'm thinking make Shii-Cho Style would work well, too.
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Post by Roque Saber on Dec 19, 2009 0:48:21 GMT -5
Hmm. Styles get complicated in NJO because "technically", the NR had 3 styles instead of the OR's 7. (They're kinda lame and were taken from Jedi Academy).
I actually really like the Use the Force, Twin, Flurry combo. Mid-30's is a good cost, though I think he'll have to be pretty "aggressively" costed the way we're headed (think Kol). Also, for the "last stand" SA, I think it should be like the opposite of Niman where it activates onces he's below half health.
Cost: mid to high 30's HP: 100-120 Def: 18-20 Att: 11-13 Dmg: 20
SA: Unique, Melee, Twin Attack, Last Stand (whatever it ends up being), Flurry Attack
FP: Force 4 (Force 2, Renewal 1? Lightsaber Sweep Use the Force? Force Repulse? Force Bubble?
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Post by gwek on Dec 19, 2009 2:07:04 GMT -5
Hmm. Styles get complicated in NJO because "technically", the NR had 3 styles instead of the OR's 7. (They're kinda lame and were taken from Jedi Academy). I wouldn't get hung up on those styles. The Jedi Academy games pre-date the official codification of the Seven Forms, I think, so of course they use a different system. More to the point, the RPG has no problem giving legitimate styles to various Jedi masters and knights. I think we can safely assign any of the "classical" forms to an NR-era character (by classical, I mean anything except maybe Vaapad), assuming we have a good reason to. I like the combo, too, but as I've said, I think may function best on a duelist, not a crowdfighter (which I think is what we want Ganner to be, no?). It's also a fairly expensive option. Y'know, I actually don't know that he needs to be priced aggressively. The New Rep has enough aggressively priced pieces. They could stand to have another guy who actually costs what he should! As long as his purpose his unique enough, that alone will make him playable. We might want to see if we can get away without creating any new special abilities... Obviously, there's still some fine-tuning to be done, but replace Last Stand with the already-existing Loner (+4 attack when alone) and/or Shii-Cho style (+4 Attack and +4 Defense while 3 or more enemies are within 6 squares) and I think we've got a piece that reflects Ganner pretty well (and no new special abilities, to boot!). He's not too different, at his core, from the new Kit Fisto, who is priced at 60. Our guy has marginally lower stats, but a much better "bag of tricks," so he probably belongs in the high 40s or 50s depending on exactly what we do with him).
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Post by Roque Saber on Dec 19, 2009 13:17:00 GMT -5
If you can show me where in the RPG books it hands out styles to existing characters, I'll take it. Nothing has been said of Ganner at this point, so we can't really make any assumptions about what form he used. Shii-Cho would sure work with how we're making this character, but it could be totally inaccurate. Lol, you were the one who originally suggested a new SA. There's a lot of question marks on this rough set of stats that we have atm, what do we want to keep?
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Post by saber1 on Dec 19, 2009 20:32:47 GMT -5
I've managed to wrap my brain around the direction the group wants to take Ganner. As a result, I've drawn from several customs posted above to make an amalgamated version that most will find acceptable.
Ganner Rhysode HP: 120 Def: 20 Att: 11 Dmg: 20
Special Abilities Unique, Melee, Double Attack Gregarious Final/Last Stand (This character gains +10 Damage, Crowd Fighting & Twin Attack while it has less than half its Hit Points remaining) Quick Reactions (+6 Attack when making attacks of opportunity)
Force Powers Force 2, Renewal 1 Force Bubble Lightsaber Sweep
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Post by gwek on Dec 20, 2009 14:19:09 GMT -5
If you can show me where in the RPG books it hands out styles to existing characters, I'll take it. The Jedi Academy RPG gives styles to Luke, Mara, Kyle, and possibly others. The seven styles were not in common usage at the time the NJO boosk were written, so it's no surprise that they don't appear in them. Since I don't expect Ganner will be much detailed in future books, I think we have some room to manuever. More to the point, I don't there will ever be a way to definitively prove that he DIDN'T use shii-cho. Also, we need to stop getting hung up so much on names. This happens to be a style that is perfectly mechanically suited to Ganner's last stand, and there's no evidence to the contrary, so why NOT use it? Although, yes, I am on record as saying that it might be impossible to capture the flavor of Ganner without at least one new ability, I certainly wasn't the first one to suggest one! My suggested Last Stand was in response to previously existing ones. However, subsequent conversation has made me re-think that. I think there are enough options that he doesn't need a new ability. It's a matter of finding the right mix of existing ones. If we go with the idea of a guy who can stand and deliver, preferably to multiple targets, Twin Attack is a good start. Lightsaber Sweep would allow him to hit multiple targets with Twin, while LS Assault can let him maximize attacks on one or two targets. For a damge booster, I like Mighty Swing, because it means he's standing still (making a last stand). Shii-cho and/or Crowdfighting are appropriate for fighting against hordes, Quick Reactions helps him keep his immediate area protected, and even Cleave wouldn't be bad (although it would work against Mighty Swing). Loner helps the feel as well (and might also be in like with his personality). So, despite what I said earlier, I now think there are more than enough options to build a "last stand" version of him without needing to resort to new stuff.
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Post by gwek on Dec 22, 2009 13:56:56 GMT -5
Bump.
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Post by gwek on Jan 4, 2010 14:34:14 GMT -5
Bump.
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Post by Dendrite on Jan 14, 2010 21:16:10 GMT -5
Here's a slightly different interpretation to draw from with previously said things in mind:
Ganner Rhysode - 50 pts
HP: 130 DEF: 20 ATT: 15 DA: 20
-Unique -Melee Attack -Twin Attack -Crowd Fighting -Impulsive Master of the Force
F2 Renewal 1 -Whirlwind Attack -Overwhelming Force -Force Bubble
I kinda like 50 as a point number for him...don't know why...
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Post by Roque Saber on Jan 14, 2010 21:31:53 GMT -5
Lol, I think Whirlwind Attack might be overkill. 4 attacks to all adjacents...sheesh! Overwhelming Force is a good choice, IMO. Impulsive MotF is intruiging...need more opinions on it. Also, I think he needs to keep Repulse as a form of mob control and direct damage.
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Post by saber1 on Jan 15, 2010 11:36:14 GMT -5
Crowd Fighting: Yes Renewal: Yes Whirlwind Attack: Yes Twin: Yes Repulse: Yes Quick Reactions: Yes Force Bubble: Yes A triggering mechanic to denote his last stand (perhaps under half hitpoints): Yes
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Post by Roque Saber on Jan 15, 2010 13:13:51 GMT -5
Why Whirlwind when he already has Twin?
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Post by bountyhunter9 on Jan 15, 2010 19:17:57 GMT -5
Yeah, Whirlwind with Twin is too much. Either LS Sweep and Twin or Whirlwind and Double would work well. I agree on Repulse. Force Bubble I'm not too fond of, because we already have it on Celeste and it's an ability that's been seen a grand total of once from WotC. I think we should keep it unique to Celeste in this set.
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Post by xpraider on Jan 15, 2010 20:23:53 GMT -5
I don't know that he warrants being a 50 point figure. He had one big moment, but was still taken down. Granted it was a huge moment for him, but I think making him take down a lot of figures, but still being a bit of a one shot cannon or missile.
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