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Post by gwek on Dec 15, 2009 20:40:34 GMT -5
Honestly, I think that Celeste Morne may be a character where we have to squint our eyes and pretend she's accurate enough. Given the scope of her abilities, it will be almost impossible to come up with a character that is balanced and accurate. I know that I supported the idea of the Muur Talisman as a power, but what if, instead, it worked like Betrayal? Not exactly how it worked, but it could be somewhat game balanced... I have more ideas, but right now, Celeste is making my head hurt, so I'm going to check out a different thread.
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Post by darthgrievous on Dec 15, 2009 21:03:31 GMT -5
"Muur Talisman: (Replaces turn: non-unique living enemies within 6 (?) squares are immediately defeated and replaced with Rakghouls under this character's control; Large and larger figures ignore this effect; save 6)
The biggest concerns are 1) the range, 2) the save, and 3) whether or not it's all non-uniques (medium and smaller of course). It could be pretty nasty to lose your Jensaari Defender or JWM just like that."
The Talisman cannot affect force users, uniques, and droids.
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Post by xpraider on Dec 16, 2009 1:33:29 GMT -5
I had made up a post earlier today about Celeste, but lost it so I dropped until now. I'll try again now.
Celeste to me seems like a basic jedi with about 4 things going for her due to the Muur Talisman.
1) She can create Rakghouls at will against non-force users 2) She can control those Rakghouls 3) The Talisman has kept her alive for a very long time, but sometimes takes control 4) She is both the keeper and prisoner of the Talisman. It has tried several times to leave her and go after another Force User, and after she died it moved on its own to take over another Force User.
So There's about 3-4 abilities we should try to get some aspect of.
1) The abilities you guys have been working on as far as the Rakghouls seem appropriate so far. Another suggestion: Rakghoul Plague (Once per game, Replaces turn. Each character within 6 squares without a Force rating save 11. On a failure that character is defeated and replaced with a Rakghoul under this player's control).
2) Empathy. Rather appropriate.
3) Not sure if we really need to try to do something about her lifespan. It didn't really seem to come into play beyond letting her come into contact with people from Zayne to Cade.
4) Now this is a rough put together for this ability, but I know there is a figure in D&D which can take over enemy characters when it is defeated, which is what I'd like to go off of. Muur Talisman: When this character is defeated the nearest enemy force user, determined by the controlling player, save 11. On failure, that character joins this character's squad and gains Empathy, Rakghoul disease, and Muur Talisman.)
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Post by bountyhunter9 on Dec 16, 2009 16:20:22 GMT -5
The idea of the Muur Talisman being like Betrayal is very interesting, if inaccurate, but may turn out to be the best route to go.
Another option would be to have it as an ability that replaces attacks and affects only one character at a time. Something like, or similar to:
Muur Talisman (replaces attacks: range 6; target living non-Unique Force user is defeated and immediately replaced with a character named Rakghoul under this character's control. The target can avoid these effects with a save of 11)
The idea of having the Talisman transher to another character is very interesting, but I'm not sure how "practical" it would be.
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Post by darthgrievous on Dec 16, 2009 17:52:40 GMT -5
Because the Talisman is sooo powerful, we were leaning towards replacing turn. range 6, save 6 non force users, non droids, turns into rakghoul under opposing squads control.
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Post by gwek on Dec 16, 2009 23:13:15 GMT -5
Thing is, I don't think the Muur Talisman should turn anyone into Rakghouls, per se.
In the Vector storyline, even though people DO transform into Raks, they still maintain their other capabilities (for example, her Mando Raks still wear armor and use firearms). In terms of "fluff", they are transformed into Raks, but MECHANICALLY (in SWM terms), they maintain their original stats, but with the addition of Rakghoul Disease, I think.
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Post by Roque Saber on Dec 17, 2009 0:24:24 GMT -5
Good point GWEk. Turning them into the existing Rakghoul piece wouldn't be accurate. I'm intrigued by the Betrayal-esque ability.
Muur Talisman: Whenever a non-unique living enemy without a force ratings rolls an attack roll of 1 against this character, the attacking enemy joins this character's squad for the rest of the skirmish and gains Rakghoul Disease.
It's actually not that powerful since it has the same chance of activating as Betrayal, only 5%. This would let us build more around the character's stats w/o having to worry about the Talisman being too overpowering. If we went this route, I think it would be really interesting to give her Force Alter. Deviousness...
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Post by darthgrievous on Dec 17, 2009 8:25:52 GMT -5
Hmm yea, then we could make her stronger on other aspects. I think the Muur Talisman should be stronger than 5% though, how many times have you had betrayal work? Hmm Id be ok with a roll of 1, if she had Force Alter and MOTF2 and could make them reroll twice.
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Post by Roque Saber on Dec 18, 2009 0:02:22 GMT -5
Exactly. So the ability isn't too overpowering, but the synenergy of abilities makes it a bit more potent. And I've seen Betrayal work a few times. Of course, it always happens when you want it to the least...
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Post by darthgrievous on Dec 18, 2009 7:30:13 GMT -5
Agreed, so Force Alter with Motf 2 then?
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Post by gwek on Dec 18, 2009 9:42:59 GMT -5
Seems like a definite possibility to me. I think we need to see a new set of full stats, incorporating some of the ideas we're talking about.
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Post by Dendrite on Dec 18, 2009 10:02:19 GMT -5
Thing is, I don't think the Muur Talisman should turn anyone into Rakghouls, per se. In the Vector storyline, even though people DO transform into Raks, they still maintain their other capabilities (for example, her Mando Raks still wear armor and use firearms). In terms of "fluff", they are transformed into Raks, but MECHANICALLY (in SWM terms), they maintain their original stats, but with the addition of Rakghoul Disease, I think. and Savage, right?
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Post by gwek on Dec 18, 2009 10:36:30 GMT -5
Personally, I think so, although this seems to be a point of discussion.
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Post by xpraider on Dec 18, 2009 13:20:14 GMT -5
definitely savage. That way the only way they're really calm is when she's around to control them. Otherwise they run off and attack whatever's there. The only problem with giving them Rakghoul disease though is that they won't be Raks, but they'll turn others into Raks. So, Celeste turns figure A, and figure A kills figure B. Figure B is now a Rakghoul, while figure A isn't.
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Post by gwek on Dec 18, 2009 13:49:36 GMT -5
I think that's fairly legitimate, and a decent representation of how the talisman behave (if I recall correctly).
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