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Jerec
Dec 21, 2009 17:44:17 GMT -5
Post by Roque Saber on Dec 21, 2009 17:44:17 GMT -5
I still like DoF better. For the CE (I know we just though we were done, sorry!) what about "Each Unique ally with a force rating can spend force points one additional time per turn"? It's not a bland +1 to force and could actually help out some pieces very nicely.
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Jerec
Dec 22, 2009 3:44:34 GMT -5
Post by gwek on Dec 22, 2009 3:44:34 GMT -5
That's very potent commander effect, especially in a faction like the Empire, which has many heavy hitters. Although a lot of their abilities are limited by "replaces turn" or "replaces attacks", global MotF+1 is big and would need to be factored into his cost.
I understand the +1 FP is "bland" and "not as helpful"... but in a game balance sense, do the Imperials really NEED such a big potential boost?
There are currently a total of 17 pieces with MotF (only 1 is Imperial). Your suggested commander effect would impact 34 pieces (including Fringe), which the Empire would effectively have twice as many characters with MotF as ALL THE OTHER FACTIONS COMBINED.
While it's an interesting idea (and I might advocate it for a "lesser" faction that could use a huge bump, like the Sith or Old Republic), I vote no for game balance.
Heck, paired with Cortosis Gauntlet alone, I think it might be grounds to call shenanigans.
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Jerec
Dec 22, 2009 12:26:55 GMT -5
Post by Roque Saber on Dec 22, 2009 12:26:55 GMT -5
then we change it to.... Unique Imperial allies... What does everyone else think?
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Jerec
Dec 22, 2009 12:39:43 GMT -5
Post by Dendrite on Dec 22, 2009 12:39:43 GMT -5
I still like the +1 force thing
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Jerec
Dec 22, 2009 12:47:37 GMT -5
Post by gwek on Dec 22, 2009 12:47:37 GMT -5
then we change it to.... Unique Imperial allies... Because then Zayne can benefit, but Roan Fel and Antares Draco still can? I think it would still affect about two dozen pieces (many of them quite powerful... many of them either Vader or Palpatine).
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Jerec
Dec 22, 2009 16:16:03 GMT -5
Post by bountyhunter9 on Dec 22, 2009 16:16:03 GMT -5
While the MotF+1 thing is very interesting, I think it would go better on a more powerful character (like a Palpatine beatstick with a cost in the high 60s/low 70s). Since we want to keep Jerec's cost down, I think the +1 to Unique allies (or was it followers?) with a Force rating is good.
What does that give us?
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Jerec
Dec 22, 2009 16:18:56 GMT -5
Post by Dendrite on Dec 22, 2009 16:18:56 GMT -5
This:
Jerec - 41pts
HP: 120 DEF: 20 ATT: 15 DA: 20
-Unique -Melee Attack -Double Attack -Its A Trap
Force 2 Renewal 1 -Force Absorb -Sith Lightning -Force Destruction (Force 4, replaces turn, sight; 60 damage and 30 damage to each adjacent character) -Sith Hatred
CE: Each unique alliy with a Force Rating start with +1 force
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Jerec
Dec 22, 2009 16:36:21 GMT -5
Post by gwek on Dec 22, 2009 16:36:21 GMT -5
I thought he as going to get either Doctrine of Fear or Lightsaber Duelist? (My vote is for DoF).
With or without, 41 is a bit low for him. He's basically a 50-point character. He's comparable to Vader's Apprentice (with slightly worse stats, but a much better repertoire of Force powers). Being a commander doesn't much hurt him in his faction (as it would in some others), because so many of the CEs for followers are for troopers so he's not eligible anyway.
My suggestions would be:
1) Up the price by about 10 points
2) Add Doctrine of Fear
3) Up the cost for Force Destruction to Force 5 (it's a LOT of damage, long-range, no save... it's a doozy!)
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Jerec
Dec 22, 2009 19:52:38 GMT -5
Post by Dendrite on Dec 22, 2009 19:52:38 GMT -5
Good then
Jerec - 51 pts
HP: 120 DEF: 20 ATT: 15 DA: 20
-Unique -Melee Attack -Double Attack -Doctrine of Fear -Its A Trap
Force 2 Renewal 1 -Force Absorb -Sith Lightning -Force Destruction (Force 5, replaces turn, sight; 60 damage and 30 damage to each adjacent character) -Sith Hatred
CE: Each unique alliy with a Force Rating start with +1 force
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Jerec
Dec 23, 2009 15:26:55 GMT -5
Post by Roque Saber on Dec 23, 2009 15:26:55 GMT -5
He looks good. He seems gimmicky though. He's there to use Force Destruction and his CE. As a fighter, he's not too powerful, though. What if he changed Sith Hatred to Sith Rage to boost his damage potential?
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Jerec
Dec 23, 2009 15:49:15 GMT -5
Post by gwek on Dec 23, 2009 15:49:15 GMT -5
Are you kidding? He's got an amazing array of Force powers! He's got a one massive big gun (destruction) but can also use the cheaper Sith Lightning on a single target or Hatred against a number of scrubs.
Force-wise, he's very well-balanced.
Although his stats aren't top tier, anything over 100 HP is pretty impressive, and his attack of +15 puts him in pretty rarefied company. There are only about three dozen characters in that class, which I believe makes him top 5%, if not more.
His stats are roughly comparable to Malak and Dooku--which is probably better than he deserves!
And, hey, not everybody gets a damage booster! He can already increase his damage when paired with Thrawn.
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Jerec
Dec 23, 2009 16:18:45 GMT -5
Post by bountyhunter9 on Dec 23, 2009 16:18:45 GMT -5
I agree, I don't think a damage booster is really necessary. As gwek pointed out, +15 attack is some pretty prestigious company. Malak, Dooku, Vader, Yoda, Luke, etc., the worst duelists (offensively) are CS Qui-Gon and some older Obi-Wans. I think lowering it to 14 would be acceptable, as this puts him in a more suitable category, IMO (Quinlan Vos, Kyle Katarn, Darth Maul, CS Jedi Masters). Other than that, I think he's done.
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Jerec
Dec 23, 2009 16:27:18 GMT -5
Post by Dendrite on Dec 23, 2009 16:27:18 GMT -5
Shall we "nail him down and sink him," then?
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Jerec
Dec 23, 2009 18:27:42 GMT -5
Post by Roque Saber on Dec 23, 2009 18:27:42 GMT -5
Ok then, no damage booster. I've just always "looked down" on pieces in this range who can't deal more than 40 damage in a turn (unless they have some other gimmick) without resorting to force points (which won't always be there).
Jerec - 51 pts
HP: 120 DEF: 20 ATT: 14 DA: 20
-Unique -Melee Attack -Double Attack -Doctrine of Fear -Its A Trap
Force 2 Renewal 1 -Force Absorb -Sith Lightning -Force Destruction (Force 5, replaces turn, sight; 60 damage and 30 damage to each adjacent character) -Sith Hatred
CE: Each unique alliy with a Force Rating start with +1 force
So does this look good?
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Jerec
Dec 23, 2009 18:57:18 GMT -5
Post by Dendrite on Dec 23, 2009 18:57:18 GMT -5
Looks good
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