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Post by Sharrakor on Mar 8, 2009 20:25:07 GMT -5
Senator Bail Organa (29) HP: 70 Def: 14 Atk: +0 Dmg: 0
Special Abilities Unique Diplomat Rebel Leader (If this character is in a squad with a character whose name contains Mothma, Bel Iblis or Galen, this character gains the following Commander Effect for the rest of the skirmish: Rebel followers gain Rebellious Spirit [+3 Attack when within 6 squares of an allied Rebel commander])
Commander Effect Rebel trooper followers within 6 squares who combine fire grant an additional +4 Attack.
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Post by gwek on Mar 8, 2009 21:18:28 GMT -5
I see what you're going for with Bail, but I have a few issue issues to bring up.
Rebel Leader is too convoluted, and too powerful, I think. Assuming one were to have all four named characters in a squad, Rebel followers would be getting +12 to attack (assuming I'm reading it correctly).
That's enough of a problem but read literally "Rebel followers gain +3 culumative Attack when within 6 squares of an allied commander" could be taken to mean that Rebel followers gain +3 for each and every allied commander they are within 6 squares of. Since Bail and one of the others would already provide a +6, I'd just grab some Mouse Droids and the cheaper commanders I could find, and drive the bonus up to a massive number.
I'm assuming that's not you're intention, but either way, a cumulative effect is potentially problematic.
As for the actual commander effect... I know you're trying to mirror the CE of the Bail Organa version, but here's the thing: I don't think Bail Organa, although he WAS a leader and founder of the Rebellion, ever led troops in any combat capacity. For most of his time, he was hiding the fact that he was a leader of the Rebellion (and also an active Senator). I'd think something more in keeping with that "behind the scenes" role would be more appropriate that a basic combat bonus.
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Post by Sharrakor on Mar 8, 2009 22:04:47 GMT -5
I believe everything you mentioned would be limited by the stacking rule. So if Bail had Garm, Mothma and Galen all in the same squad, Rebel trooper followers wouldn't get +12 Attack because the ability can't stack upon itself (and therefore give him 4 CEs).
As for the CE itself, Rebel trooper followers can only get +3 Attack from Bail due to stacking rules. Nevertheless, the term "cumulative" doesn't mean it can stack with itself (although I can see how it would be mistaken) but instead with other CE's that grant straight Attack bonuses (such as the Rebel Captain's CE, Ackbar's, etc.)
As for the actual commander effect, well, at first I had it giving out Spotter +20 but I though it overshadowed the Rebel Leader's CE. So I decided to give him something which amplified it instead. Should I change the range restriction? Or change the entire CE altogether?
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Post by gwek on Mar 8, 2009 23:59:40 GMT -5
I see what you're getting at with Rebel Leader (in part). I hope you can understand how the use of the word "cumulative" led to my confusion!
Since you want this to stack with other open bonuses, I think it might be better to have Bail give out a special ability rather than the bonus itself (I'll explain in a moment).
I'm not clear if Rebel followers are supposed to get +3 when within 6 squares of one of the named Rebel leaders, or within 6 squares of ANY allied commander.
Depending, I might edit the ability to something like this:
Rebellious Spirit is just a placeholder name, but you get the idea. Note that where the parentheses go is very important, because it impacts whether Mouse Droids affect things or not.
*****
With respect to the actual commander effect, I think it depends on what you're looking to do with the character. I agree that completely overshadowing an existing commander effect isn't a good idea, but if it's a variation, it might work.
In the case of the Rebels, though, they have soooo much already, that it's worth looking at the other commander effects to see if they really even NEED something new!
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Post by Sharrakor on Mar 9, 2009 0:55:28 GMT -5
I've replaced the Commander Effect in Rebel Leader with:
Rebel followers gain Rebellious Spirit (+3 Attack when within 6 squares of an allied Rebel commander)
(Thanks for the help!)
As for his actuall CE, I think it more builds on a current mechanic then gives them a new. Although it could be both, I guess.
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Post by planeswalker459 on Mar 9, 2009 13:54:06 GMT -5
not too shabby.
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Post by gwek on Mar 9, 2009 19:05:16 GMT -5
I was thinking about how to replicate the idea of Bail Organa during the early days of the Rebellion, and maybe a commander effect for commanders is the way to go?
The Rebellion was designed in cells, so most Rebs wouldn't necessarily realize who Bail Organa is (or at least his significance), but the next level of leadership down (maybe "non-Unique Rebel commanders"?) might...
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Post by Sharrakor on Mar 10, 2009 4:35:16 GMT -5
An interesting idea. But what could be given out? I can't think of anything commanders need.
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Post by gwek on Mar 10, 2009 9:02:28 GMT -5
The problem is, there's nothing the Rebels need as a faction!
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Post by Sharrakor on Mar 10, 2009 15:54:31 GMT -5
Yeah....
That is an unfortunate problem with custom making. Eventually you run out of viable ideas. Maybe a new special ability? Something like Relay Orders, but instead each Commander counts the distance for their CE from each Commander (increasing their effectivenss - probabl a hundredfold in some cases). Or maybe Imperial Hunter (which I have one some characters already).
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Post by gwek on Mar 10, 2009 23:36:56 GMT -5
Yeah, the challenge with customs is that you're always sort of running against the official pieces. That's one of the reasons I prefer the Old Republic-era factions: there are far fewer pieces, so it's much easier to look for synergies and abuses.
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Post by Sharrakor on Mar 11, 2009 1:12:30 GMT -5
Yeah... But making ~10 sets for the lower factions just doesn't happen.
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Post by planeswalker459 on Mar 11, 2009 16:19:35 GMT -5
I actually like the relay orders idea but using commanders instead of the mouse droid.
It works well with the whole chain of command idea the rebels have, without the great atactical warmachine the empire has.
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Post by gwek on Mar 11, 2009 22:25:56 GMT -5
So, basically, any commander counts as within 6 for ALL commanders, yes?
Might want to limit it to just REBEL commanders and commander effects to build the theme (and also to somewhat mitigate the Rieekan/TBSV combo).
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Post by planeswalker459 on Mar 12, 2009 0:20:58 GMT -5
exactly
I think thats the best option. Sharrakor?
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